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  1. #1231
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This is where I'm at. Are these numbers even reliable? Relative to where the rest of the line is at, it doesn't look as bad. I can't believe everything is truly this grim. Something is missing from this data being complete.

    Hell. Maybe it's my connection to reality and these are accurate, but it seems wild. The book has been a blast, the most I've enjoyed Flash in over a decade, so if nothing else it's good to be reading the Scarlet Speedster again.
    I’m reminded of something Breevort said once: whenever they gave the fans what they wanted, the sales were soft. Whereas when they pissed fans off, the sales skyrocketed. It’s not true all the time, after all making fans mad ended up biting Marvel in the ass when they replaced all their OGs with legacies, and stuff like Immortal Hulk or Snyder Batman are widely beloved and huge sellers.
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  2. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m reminded of something Breevort said once: whenever they gave the fans what they wanted, the sales were soft. Whereas when they pissed fans off, the sales skyrocketed. It’s not true all the time, after all making fans mad ended up biting Marvel in the ass when they replaced all their OGs with legacies, and stuff like Immortal Hulk or Snyder Batman are widely beloved and huge sellers.
    I don't remember who said it, but I like the quote "Don't give the fans what they ask for, give them what they want, but don't know it."

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Yeah, I know. I just meant something that newer readers can pick up so they can understand the lore better. Like Batgirl: Year One was for Barbara Gordon.
    Are newer readers interested in Wally though? To them, Barry is The Flash and Wally is a glorified sidekick at most, which saddens me after two decades of wearing the mantle and outright surpassing him.

  4. #1234
    Fantastic Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    Are newer readers interested in Wally though? To them, Barry is The Flash and Wally is a glorified sidekick at most, which saddens me after two decades of wearing the mantle and outright surpassing him.
    I hope newer readers are interested in Wally. So many great stories.

    Now I don't want to start a war (as I am a Wally and Barry fan) but do we really believe Wally surpassed Barry? I know i know this is a debate that has gone on for years and even had DC comics website shut down the forum years ago. Wally is my Flash even though I love Barry and all the rest as well. I have been a Wally fanatic my whole life. I just dont know iif people look at him as the better Flash.
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  5. #1235
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    I hope newer readers are interested in Wally. So many great stories.

    Now I don't want to start a war (as I am a Wally and Barry fan) but do we really believe Wally surpassed Barry? I know i know this is a debate that has gone on for years and even had DC comics website shut down the forum years ago. Wally is my Flash even though I love Barry and all the rest as well. I have been a Wally fanatic my whole life. I just dont know iif people look at him as the better Flash.
    I think Wally's motivation and characterization give him a leg up on Barry. We'll see.

  6. #1236
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    I hope newer readers are interested in Wally. So many great stories.

    Now I don't want to start a war (as I am a Wally and Barry fan) but do we really believe Wally surpassed Barry? I know i know this is a debate that has gone on for years and even had DC comics website shut down the forum years ago. Wally is my Flash even though I love Barry and all the rest as well. I have been a Wally fanatic my whole life. I just dont know iif people look at him as the better Flash.
    Most people don’t read comics, they think of Barry as the Flash because he’s the one in the movies, video games, animation, and on TV, simple as that. If one of the multiple Flash projects starring Wally, there was a movie, a TV show, a video game all in development at one point, had worked out Wally would have a much stronger pop culture presence. But all he has is the DCAU which is over a decade old at this point. Not to mention a lot of concepts that originated with Wally, like the Speed Force, were taken and given to Barry.

    All that is why I never believed like a lot of Wally fans did that Wally getting the mantle back would bring back a rush of people. Barry is the most popular Flash, simply the way it is.
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  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    I hope newer readers are interested in Wally. So many great stories.

    Now I don't want to start a war (as I am a Wally and Barry fan) but do we really believe Wally surpassed Barry? I know i know this is a debate that has gone on for years and even had DC comics website shut down the forum years ago. Wally is my Flash even though I love Barry and all the rest as well. I have been a Wally fanatic my whole life. I just dont know iif people look at him as the better Flash.
    Wally surpassed Barry speed-wise sure. He was the first to mainline the Speed Force and by the end of his run was more in tune with his powers than Barry ever was.
    I didn't take that as a slap to the face to Barry though. Barry approached his powers differently. He looked at it as a scientist. He gave us his Flash Facts.
    Wally NEVER overtook his mentor as the Flash though. Thankfully, the writers who controlled the character realised that wasn't something Wally was ever interested in.
    He didn't want to be better than Barry, because he never could be. He wanted to HONOUR his uncle and his sacrifice while honoring the legacy he assumed.

    There has been and should always be room for more than one Flash in the DCU.
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  8. #1238
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    Holy crap!

    I JUST noticed that the latest solicited issue of Flash - #775 has gone up a buck!!
    $4.99 for the regular issue and $5.99 for the variant.
    No rise in page count either.

    That blows.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  9. #1239
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Most people don’t read comics, they think of Barry as the Flash because he’s the one in the movies, video games, animation, and on TV, simple as that. If one of the multiple Flash projects starring Wally, there was a movie, a TV show, a video game all in development at one point, had worked out Wally would have a much stronger pop culture presence. But all he has is the DCAU which is over a decade old at this point. Not to mention a lot of concepts that originated with Wally, like the Speed Force, were taken and given to Barry.

    All that is why I never believed like a lot of Wally fans did that Wally getting the mantle back would bring back a rush of people. Barry is the most popular Flash, simply the way it is.
    Animation's not always Barry. It's Wally in the Justice League cartoon. The live action show and the Justice League movie though, those would make people think of Barry as the main Flash. So, like the comics, it depends on when you first got into The Flash.
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  10. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    I hope newer readers are interested in Wally. So many great stories.

    Now I don't want to start a war (as I am a Wally and Barry fan) but do we really believe Wally surpassed Barry? I know i know this is a debate that has gone on for years and even had DC comics website shut down the forum years ago. Wally is my Flash even though I love Barry and all the rest as well. I have been a Wally fanatic my whole life. I just dont know iif people look at him as the better Flash.
    Before 2008 it was largely thought that it was unnecessary to bring Barry back. Not only Wally enjoyed much more better characterization and development thanks to how lucky he was with the amazing writers he had the privilege of having, but he also went above and beyond the powers of Barry while taking the Flash mythology to greater levels. While I love Barry as the Silver/Bronze Age icon he is, his sacrifice was not only the greatest sendoff a hero could have and he became legendary but the stepping stone of years of amazing Flash mythology development, and his return not only cheapened that and Wally's role as his replacement, but I also don't feel like it was worth it. No run from Barry since his return is on the same level of quality as any from Wally. Wally is just a much more compelling character because he's the underdog who looked up to all these heroes and struggled to live up to the Flash legacy, becoming a legend himself. Hell, they had to give Barry a dead mother to give him some drama to struggle with, but the character started to revolve only around that.
    It says something when some of the best Williamson Flash stories were the ones that featured Wally. I still think a great Barry Allen run can be done, but only someone like Morrison can do it.
    Last edited by Maxi; 07-30-2021 at 05:53 AM.

  11. #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Barry is the most popular Flash, simply the way it is.
    Only because of media presence. Before all of that, Wally was far more popular than Barry among comic readers.

  12. #1242
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Holy crap!

    I JUST noticed that the latest solicited issue of Flash - #775 has gone up a buck!!
    $4.99 for the regular issue and $5.99 for the variant.
    No rise in page count either.

    That blows.
    In the October solicits that I see it actually says 48 pages for 4.99. Which is quite a deal since the regular 4.99 comics these days are only 40 pages.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

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  13. #1243
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
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    Finally read the most recent issue and it was really good. Fun story. Love the parts with Wally and Mr. Terrific. Adams also writes the kids really well. Silly and not bratty. The stuff with Mick was good too. Love this comic. So nice to enjoy the Flash again.

  14. #1244
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Animation's not always Barry. It's Wally in the Justice League cartoon. The live action show and the Justice League movie though, those would make people think of Barry as the main Flash. So, like the comics, it depends on when you first got into The Flash.
    I literally said Wally has the DCAU, but it doesn’t really help because
    1. The DCAU is over 10 years old
    2. Wally and Barry’s Flash costumes are basically identical and they mostly just call him “Flash” on the show, so quite a few people think it’s Barry in the DCAU
    3. Barry is basically written the same as DCAU Wally, which only adds to the confusion
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    Only because of media presence. Before all of that, Wally was far more popular than Barry among comic readers.
    Amongst the old guard readers sure, but nobody cares about comics readers anymore, the Big 2 are just IP farms for the movies, TV shows, and video games where the real money is. And there are younger millennial/Gen Z readers who like Barry more.

    Look I’m happy Wally is back and I’m enjoying the book, I’m merely explaining why Wally’s return isn’t bringing huge numbers of people back to the book. Things have changed a lot since Flashpoint, a lot of assumptions I see being made just don’t hold up.
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  15. #1245
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Wally surpassed Barry speed-wise sure. He was the first to mainline the Speed Force and by the end of his run was more in tune with his powers than Barry ever was.
    I didn't take that as a slap to the face to Barry though. Barry approached his powers differently. He looked at it as a scientist. He gave us his Flash Facts.
    Wally NEVER overtook his mentor as the Flash though. Thankfully, the writers who controlled the character realised that wasn't something Wally was ever interested in.
    He didn't want to be better than Barry, because he never could be. He wanted to HONOUR his uncle and his sacrifice while honoring the legacy he assumed.

    There has been and should always be room for more than one Flash in the DCU.
    I've always thought they need to differentiate Barry and Wally's attitude towards their powers (e.g Barry as a scientist)

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