Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2021

[Dred]

There was plenty of confusion with the quicksilvers at the time. The Captain Americas were told as part of the sprawling franchise that I've already brought up as something DC is unlikely unable to recreate (there's already plenty of exhaustion of it for Marvel). If DC were committed to doing an animated feature about how there's more than one Flash like Spider-verse then sure. I just don't think they are and I don't think we'd actually get Wally. We'd likely get Wallace. DC brass has long held the opinion that Wally and Barry are "too similar" and if you're going to branch out into another set of Flashes they're already kind of pot committed to Jay Garrick, don't need a third white guy at that point.

Flash's lack of female characters sucks. I guess they'd likely use Jesse or something but I wish Flash could've committed to going forward years ago. I'd love Iris actually heading female, non-white rep in the franchise.

[John Venus]

People accepted there were two Quicksilvers. Even around AoU, most online commentors were going hard on Wanda being used to bring mutants into the MCU and Magento eventually being revealed as their father.

Nobody was confused about Tom Holland's Spider-Man being different from Andrew Garfield's Spider-man either.

Most of the old top brass at DC is gone now. Wally has made solid appearances in JLU, Teen Titans and Young Justice. The new brass is pushing him in the current titles. Claims that the general audience will be confused is bunk, the GA has been dealing with multiple versions of the same character appearing in different media just fine for years now. Plus they're all sick of Barry mucking up timeline in every single appearance. They need something fresh. It all depends on execution at the end. I'm sure Wally will get his shot again either in animation or live action, especially since the fans who grew up reading Waid's run and watching JLU are taking over the reins now.

[Dred]

Both Spider-men were Peter Parker, no? Fans are okay with reboots, new actors playing familiar roles. No one is confused by Cavill not being Reeves. That's different from two different characters both being The Flash at the same time. Quicksilver is the closest and, despite how fun he was in the X-men series, Quicksilver wasn't even a major character like The Flash is slated to be. There aren't any Quicksilver led movies after all.

I'm not talking about comics Top Brass. I'm talking about the executives who tell folks like Didio what to give them and do.

The general audience, if you're talking about the Flash show with your comment, are die hard Barry fans and would drop the show in a heartbeat at him getting replaced. The general movie going audience honestly probably doesn't care but there'd be some crossover hubbub about them changing who The Flash is for some reason. The main point here is that the general movie going audience doesn't care so why mess around with it? They're not doing take for take adaptations, just loosely inspired superhero movies with the same names as their IP. Barry's name is as good as Wally's for any of that. It's not like that dude in the movie is anything like Barry or Wally in the first place.

Wally can get his shot in smaller media adaptations infrequently and comics, but I'm fairly certain he'll never get a lead part in a show or a major part in a movie franchise like Barry. He might show up in a supporting role but that is, again, infinitely more likely to be Wallace since Wallace is black. In comics Wally has a much bigger impact and presence than he has anywhere else and that's where he sticks the most -- creators who like the character as comic fans will bring him back. This is not the case in anything live action and much less the case in animated stuff. Wally isn't appearing in any animated movies and he's only in Young Justice because he's Kid Flash in Young Justice, which is a palatable role for him. Even then we're not too far removed from them saying Barry was Kid Flash in the most recent continuity of animated movies -- they were so against Wally they made BARRY into Kid Flash! Going forward I think the animated movies will be like any live adaptation, though. Once YJ has run its course any future Kid Flash stuff will likely be Wallace. They'd much rather have a black character for any minor Kid Flash role they have in the future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love to see more of Wally. I'd love for Wally's actual character arcs and stuff to get adaptations because it's the best content The Flash has ever had. I'm just skeptical of it ever happening. Doesn't fit with what DC has done.

[John Venus]

We can agree to disagree on this.

Looking at the current pop culture landscape, I find these arguments claiming that Wally would not work in a big budget adaptation or the audience would not accept him or that his presence would create confusion to be both apocryphal and antiquated.

[Frontier]

It is actually embarrassing that Marvel beat DC to a concept like Into the Spider-verse. The Flash franchise would've fit that entire idea a million times over perfectly. An entire legacy/spinoff movie concept. But that kind of harkens to my earlier point about Marvel's movie success being something DC won't be able to replicate.

If we want to get technical, Sony beat both of them to it.

[Dred]

We can agree to disagree on this.

Looking at the current pop culture landscape, I find these arguments claiming that Wally would not work in a big budget adaptation or the audience would not accept him or that his presence would create confusion to be both apocryphal and antiquated.

I'm sure Wally could technically work. Any character could probably work if adapted right. I just don't see them doing it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm sure Wally could technically work. Any character could probably work if adapted right. I just don't see them doing it.

Same.

I think adapting Wally's motivation and character would be both easier and better, but Marvel is the only company that's demonstrated a willingness to break from canon in major ways. Without that, Wally will always be second place

[Frontier]

Same.

I think adapting Wally's motivation and character would be both easier and better, but Marvel is the only company that's demonstrated a willingness to break from canon in major ways. Without that, Wally will always be second place

I mean, both of the Big Two are willing to break canon in certain respects when it suits them while still frequenting the standard versions for adaptions.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I mean, both of the Big Two are willing to break canon in certain respects when it suits them while still frequenting the standard versions for adaptions.

Yeah, but DC and others also pull to closely to the comics without the work that made things work in the comics.

I mean, the first Suicide Squad movie did the team's first big arc, where the team went into the Nightshade dimension and Enchantress went nutso.

Except they didn't have Nightshade, we had no reason to care about Enchantress, etc.

Same with New Mutants. It tried to do the Demon Bear arc, ignoring all the groundwork that made a story that was done at issue 25.

All comic book movies break from canon to one extent or another, but most non Marvel movies drift towards canon needlessly and to their detriment.

[Frontier]

Yeah, but DC and others also pull to closely to the comics without the work that made things work in the comics.

I mean, the first Suicide Squad movie did the team's first big arc, where the team went into the Nightshade dimension and Enchantress went nutso.

Except they didn't have Nightshade, we had no reason to care about Enchantress, etc.

Same with New Mutants. It tried to do the Demon Bear arc, ignoring all the groundwork that made a story that was done at issue 25.

All comic book movies break from canon to one extent or another, but most non Marvel movies drift towards canon needlessly and to their detriment.

This reminds me of how Far From Home jumped into the Peter/MJ relationship with literally no build up and her actual name being completely different .

[Digifiend]

There was plenty of confusion with the quicksilvers at the time. The Captain Americas were told as part of the sprawling franchise that I've already brought up as something DC is unlikely unable to recreate (there's already plenty of exhaustion of it for Marvel). If DC were committed to doing an animated feature about how there's more than one Flash like Spider-verse then sure. I just don't think they are and I don't think we'd actually get Wally. We'd likely get Wallace. DC brass has long held the opinion that Wally and Barry are "too similar" and if you're going to branch out into another set of Flashes they're already kind of pot committed to Jay Garrick, don't need a third white guy at that point.

Flash's lack of female characters sucks. I guess they'd likely use Jesse or something but I wish Flash could've committed to going forward years ago. I'd love Iris actually heading female, non-white rep in the franchise.

There is Avery Ho, Flash of China, and Irey West, Impulse II, who are both Asian (Irey's mother is Linda Park, who is Korean). Problem is Avery requires New Super-Man to be adapted (she debuted in Flash, but got her costume and codename in Kenan's book), and Irey requires a comic accurate Wally.

They've also just introduced a black female speedster, Bolt.

Flash, JL, what’s the third?

Not the main JL book actually, Flash in that is Barry. It's Flash, Justice League Infinity (DCAU sequel), and Justice League Last Ride (an Elseworld).

[Dred]

There is Avery Ho, Flash of China, and Irey West, Impulse II, who are both Asian (Irey's mother is Linda Park, who is Korean). Problem is Avery requires New Super-Man to be adapted (she debuted in Flash, but got her costume and codename in Kenan's book), and Irey requires a comic accurate Wally.

They've also just introduced a black female speedster, Bolt.

Not the main JL book actually, Flash in that is Barry. It's Flash, Justice League Infinity (DCAU sequel), and Justice League Last Ride (an Elseworld).

Wally's kids will never appear in anything. Ever. I'd be surprised if we ever hear the name Linda Park again. Her last appearance being a throw away love interest for Barry.

The reason I say Wallace is because, for the forseeable future, Iris is going to be black in every adaptation. If you want to introduce Iris' troubled nephew from a breaking/broken home named Wallace/Wally to become Kid Flash, they're just going to use the one that's already black. They might call him Wally but they'll just always adapt the black version because it's easier. That's why Wally West is dead as a character in external media -- Barry will always precede him and they need to use the black character to match Iris now being black. Path of least resistance there. And, frankly, adapted version are so strung out and different from comics versions the only way you CAN tell which one it will be is by the ethnicity these days. Adaptations are so watered down and twisted characterwise it'll be irrelevant to distinguish them on anything but appearance.

Avery Ho could reasonably show up at some point, sure, but the Iris Nephew bit is an easy introduction.

[John Venus]

Never say never.

Especially with the cyclical nature of pop culture where everything old becomes new again.

[Veni]

I don't believe that Iris will be black forever. The Flash tv show was popular the first 2 seasons and everybody talked about it. Now no one watches it or talks about it. Iris is the most annoying characters on the show, similar how Felicity was on Arrow. I can tell you that as an European no one talks about this show in my country. They don't even talk about it on social media.

[Dred]

I don't believe that Iris will be black forever. The Flash tv show was popular the first 2 seasons and everybody talked about it. Now no one watches it or talks about it. Iris is the most annoying characters on the show, similar how Felicity was on Arrow. I can tell you that as an European no one talks about this show in my country. They don't even talk about it on social media.

Doubtful. She's black in the live action movies, in the show, and in the latest animated feature. These are intentional decisions in the casting calls to make her ethnically different from how she is in comics. There's no reason for them to ever walk back on it and get bad press over white washing what the common audience expects is now a black character. We are much more likely to have comics Iris become black with the next reboot (however far ahead that may be) than her being changed back to white in external media.

It doesn't really matter if she's popular or not. That's just what DC wants to do. They want to pretend to increase diversity by changing the race of supporting characters.