Emma Frost Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

If one wants to measure the skill of someone, they do it by analyzing ones actions. It’s why jobs have a probation period. It’s why jobs have interviews. It’s the way of things in life in general.

You want to argue that Xavier is more skilled than Emma? What skill feats does Xavier have to put him above Emma skill-wise?

(Do not use his age. The age of a person does not determine their experience. It’s what they’ve done in those years that determines their experience)

As I noted in Jean's thread:

The Omega Level classification determines that a mutant's ability - often interchanged with the word "power," though not in the traditional sense - has an "undefinable upper limit." Ability is integral to skill, as is, at a certain point, power, in the traditional sense, [especially when concerning mutants and their "powers."]

[PyroFN]

As I noted in Jean's thread:

And I will repeat to you what I said in the other thread:

By your definition of Omega, Quentin would surpass Xavier or Emma in both skill and power because Hickman’s definition requires that you not be surpassed in the area that you are an Omega in.

Thus, I disagree very much with your definition. The Omega definition refers only to raw power and potential. Not skill.

[Mercury]

And I will repeat to you what I said in the other thread:

By your definition of Omega, Quentin would surpass Xavier or Emma in both skill and power because Hickman’s definition requires that you not be surpassed in the area that you are an Omega in.

Thus, I disagree very much with your definition. The Omega definition refers only to raw power and potential. Not skill.

This is what you posted and how I replied:

I didn’t. You imply it by grouping skill in Hickman’s definition of Omega. Quentin Quire is on the Omega list. You state that being Omega includes skill in that category. So by your own logic, Quentin Quire has more skill than either Emma or Xavier because by definition, Hickman’s definition means they are unsurpassed in their field. That is why Forge is not an Omega in technopathics.

That in turn is why I firmly disagree with your assertion.

You didn't what? Not confirm that Quentin Quire is not as good or simply an equal psi to Emma and Xavier? Oh, I know that. But you did imply it. As a matter of fact, Quentin Quire may very well be a better psi than Emma or Xavier. That's why I asked you, Where has it been confirmed that Quentin Quire is not a better psi than Xavier and Emma?

Also, I state that the usage of the word power in the definition for Omega Level Mutant is referring to ability (e.g., telepathy, telekinesis), which encompasses skill, not just force or strength. In fact, the first Oxford definition for the word power is, "1. The ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality." https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/power

The first and second Oxford definitions for faculty are also telling: 1. An inherent mental or physical power. 1.1. An aptitude or talent for doing something. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/faculty

The Oxford definitions for aptitude continue the revealing trend: 1. A natural ability to do something. 1.1. A natural tendency.2. (archaic) Suitability or fitness. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/aptitude

Yes, in my opinion, the word power as used to define Omega Level Mutants encompasses both quantity and quality, scope and skill of ability, which have undefined upper limits for Omega Level Mutants.

[ExodusCloak]

This is what you posted and how I replied:



You didn't what? Not confirm that Quentin Quire is not as good or simply an equal psi to Emma and Xavier? Oh, I know that. But you did imply it. As a matter of fact, Quentin Quire may very well be a better psi than Emma or Xavier. That's why I asked you, Where has it been confirmed that Quentin Quire is not a better psi than Xavier and Emma?

Also, I state that the usage of the word power in the definition for Omega Level Mutant is referring to ability (e.g., telepathy, telekinesis), which encompasses skill, not just force or strength. In fact, the first Oxford definition for the word power is, "1. The ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality." https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/power

The first and second Oxford definitions for faculty are also telling: 1. An inherent mental or physical power. 1.1. An aptitude or talent for doing something. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/faculty

The Oxford definitions for aptitude continue the revealing trend: 1. A natural ability to do something. 1.1. A natural tendency.2. (archaic) Suitability or fitness. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/aptitude

Yes, in my opinion, the word power as used to define Omega Level Mutants encompasses both quantity and quality, scope and skill of ability, which have undefined upper limits for Omega Level Mutants.

What you're suggesting is that you can become the omega of that power classification through hard work, training and skill. Additionally you could knock someone off that rank. Some people won't like that.

Meaning the spots are dynamic

[Mercury]

What you're suggesting is that you can become the omega of that power classification through hard work, training and skill. Additionally you could knock someone off that rank. Some people won't like that.

Meaning the spots are dynamic

I have neither said nor suggested anything of the sort. What I have tried to make clear is that power = ability (the terms are often used interchangeably) when speaking of mutant's natural born abilities and that "upper limit," by virtue of the official definitions of both power and ability, encompasses both skill and strength. In order to be categorized as an Omega Level Mutant, your power/ability has to register - or reach - an undefinable upper limit of skill, strength, and scope. Is it any wonder why Omega Level Mutants are rare?

[ExodusCloak]

I have neither said nor suggested anything of the sort. What I have tried to make clear is that power = ability (the terms are often used interchangeably) when speaking of mutant's natural born abilities and that "upper limit," by virtue of the official definitions of both power and ability, encompasses both skill and strength. In order to be categorized as an Omega Level Mutant, your power/ability has to register - or reach - an undefinable upper limit of skill, strength, and scope. Is it any wonder why Omega Level Mutants are rare?

You definitely are suggesting that by throwing a factor of skill into it. Which is a variable and something that can be changed (worsen or deteriorate)

And if it was a combination of the 3 why is Quentin there. Because what you're suggesting is that Jean Grey and Quentin are on par skill, strength and scope.

[Mercury]

You definitely are suggesting that by throwing a factor of skill into it. Which is a variable and something that can be changed (worsen or deteriorate)

And if it was a combination of the 3 why is Quentin there. Because what you're suggesting is that Jean Grey and Quentin are on par skill, strength and scope.

How about this: 1) Omega Level Mutants' (OLM) innate levels of skill, which have an undefined growth upper limit, will always be greater - it's called being gifted, having a talent, an aptitude - than non-OLM mutants' levels of skill within the same power/ability classification. 2) OLMs, since, again, they have an undefined upper limit of growth, can always continue to grow, and may even be more skilled than other OLMs in their power/ability classification, hence why Jean has been shown a few times training Quentin Quire.

Skill/Strength/Scope Ranking:

1. Jean Grey
2. Quentin Quire
3. Xavier
4. Emma

The rest. Emma is still in the top five.

[darkalamator]

please Emma has (and will) mopped the floor with Quentin... (and with Charles as well a couple of times...)

[rhaenylis]

please Emma has (and will) mopped the floor with Quentin... (and with Charles as well a couple of times...)

As a big fan of Emma, ​​Rogue and Scott I have fond memories of X-Men Legacy #216

[PyroFN]

This is what you posted and how I replied:



You didn't what? Not confirm that Quentin Quire is not as good or simply an equal psi to Emma and Xavier? Oh, I know that. But you did imply it. As a matter of fact, Quentin Quire may very well be a better psi than Emma or Xavier. That's why I asked you, Where has it been confirmed that Quentin Quire is not a better psi than Xavier and Emma?

Also, I state that the usage of the word power in the definition for Omega Level Mutant is referring to ability (e.g., telepathy, telekinesis), which encompasses skill, not just force or strength. In fact, the first Oxford definition for the word power is, "1. The ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality." https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/power

The first and second Oxford definitions for faculty are also telling: 1. An inherent mental or physical power. 1.1. An aptitude or talent for doing something. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/faculty

The Oxford definitions for aptitude continue the revealing trend: 1. A natural ability to do something. 1.1. A natural tendency.2. (archaic) Suitability or fitness. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/aptitude

Yes, in my opinion, the word power as used to define Omega Level Mutants encompasses both quantity and quality, scope and skill of ability, which have undefined upper limits for Omega Level Mutants.

How about pure feats, but I suppose if you want only statements,

For Xavier,



For Emma Frost,



The five telepaths named by Exodus capable of a complex feat as the one in this issue,



The list is as followed: Xavier, Jean, Exodus, Sinister, and Emma Frost. No Quentin anywhere.

I have plenty of evidence for Emma Frost and Xavier being much better psi than Quentin by statements alone. If I went by feats, Quentin is shown to be not even in the same ballpark as Emma Frost. So, no, Quentin is not a better telepath by holding the Omega definition and thus points to Hickman’s definition of power being purely based on raw strength. Not skill.

And if you want to play around with definitions, Merriam-Webster’s definition

a) “The quality or state of being able”

The secondary definition is

b) “competence in doing something”

Hickman is referencing the ‘a’ definition. The capability. Not the proficiency in the ‘b’ definition.

[Mercury]

PyroFN, I don't recall Hickman ever stating that his definition of an Omega Level Mutant is "purely based on raw strength," so I'm going to go by the cluster of official Oxford definitions I posted above in my interpretation of Hickman's definition.

In either case, I get where you're coming from, but I think we can agree to disagree here. As far as I am concerned, Emma is neither equal nor superior to Jean, Quentin, or Xavier in any way. (In fact, if I recall, didn't she need the help of the Cuckoos to subdue Quentin in New X-Men?) Nevertheless, Emma is undoubtedly one of the most powerful and skillful telepaths in existence. I am certainly not questioning or negating this. In fact, as I posted above, she ranks in skill, strength, and scope about midrange in the top five of all telepaths in existence. She is certainly amazing in her own right. That is all.

[RadarBlackout]

Emma will get a new skin costume for the Marvel Strike Force, the skin is based on Dawn of X

[ExodusCloak]

PyroFN, I don't recall Hickman ever stating that his definition of an Omega Level Mutant is "purely based on raw strength," so I'm going to go by the cluster of official Oxford definitions I posted above in my interpretation of Hickman's definition.

In either case, I get where you're coming from, but I think we can agree to disagree here. As far as I am concerned, Emma is neither equal nor superior to Jean, Quentin, or Xavier in any way. (In fact, if I recall, didn't she need the help of the Cuckoos to subdue Quentin in New X-Men?) Nevertheless, Emma is undoubtedly one of the most powerful and skillful telepaths in existence. I am certainly not questioning or negating this. In fact, as I posted above, she ranks in skill, strength, and scope about midrange in the top five of all telepaths in existence. She is certainly amazing in her own right. That is all.

I think its obvious that it's based on a the highest recorded display of power(raw strength) by the individual. Because if it was skill Quentin and Jean would not be in a dead tie

Emma made short work of Quentin in Schism, and knocked him on his ass during Xaviers will reading when her powers were broken

[ExodusCloak]

Even the Cuckoo's took him out in the anthology story

[Mercury]

I think its obvious that it's based on a the highest recorded display of power(raw strength) by the individual. Because if it was skill Quentin and Jean would not be in a dead tie

They are not in a "dead tie," though, hence why he has needed her training. The way I see it, there are gradations in the Omega Level category, and mutants who are categorized as such by their power/ability classification - in this case, telepathy - can alternately be at a higher level than the other, and always at a higher level than those who have not been deemed Omega Level Mutants.