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  1. #2311
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I think part of it is that dressing in skimpy outfits is considered normal now, and thus not something people feel the need to fight for the ability to do. It's a weird thing but yeah... cultural approaches to im-modest attire changed from "you can't do that" to "don't dress like a slut". The first one people felt the need to rebel against in fiction... the second.... not so much. It's no longer hip or trendy to push the boundaries of what's acceptable... so they don't.
    Or make the cybernetics more sleek and less like prosthetics, and more integrated?
    I think the cybernetic bases should be covered with Dr. Cyber and maybe Cyborgirl. What made Helen Alexandros so compelling is she was an "ugly" duckling that was turned into a beautiful swan. She reveled in her new persona, wanted revenge on mankind which she felt had rejected her and was willing to do whatever it took to hold onto her new status. That's immensely relatable, understandable and to a degree sympathetic. All that has been lost in favor of duplicating Barbara Ann's scorned best friend angle with increasingly diminishing results.

    As for the slut shaming and changing cultural attitudes someone needs to inform the people on Tic Tok, Instagram and freak Twitter where showing skin is still alive and well. I'm not saying Silver Swan should commit crimes in a negligee like a comic book version of a Victoria's Secret angel. She could get a new costume and retain her original motivation. Though as a bad girl she really doesn’t have to cover up, Amora the Enchantress, Emma Frost and the Goblin Queen Madelyne Pryor haven’t lost their popularity due to being scantily clad. Sex will always sell.

  2. #2312
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Phil Cho


  3. #2313
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    My only issue with Hypnota being in Suicide Squad is that it means she might not be part of Villainy Inc. when it inevitably returns, and I want all eight members back.

    But until that happens, I'm fine with her being on the SS. As long as they don't kill her for no reason. She seemed pretty strong from what little we've seen of her so far.



    I really do miss Helen Alexandros. Her look and shtick could easily be modernized without having to be all cyborgy. Not to mention the Vanessa version is FAR too close to the Barbara Ann version of Cheetah.

    I also like the Helen Alexandros version quite a bit, especially her origin, being a creation of Ares. Sure, her look would need to be modernized but that doesn't seem too difficult.
    Currently/Soon Reading: Action Comics, Aquaman: The Becoming, AquamEn, Black Manta, DC vs. Vampires, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Nubia & the Amazons, Superman: Son of Kal-El, The New Champion of Shazam!, Trial of the Amazons, & Wonder Woman.

  4. #2314
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    They really should just bring back Alexandros. Vanessa had the best arc of the Swans, but it really depended on Jimenez and Rucka building off of specific post-Crisis events and it had to be finite by necessity. We've seen that she straight up does not work outside of that continuity and she isn't doing anything now that Cheetah isn't already doing way better.

    Alexandros works better for a recurring villain you want to make regular use out of, who is sympathetic but has some agency in her actions unlike Valerie and Vanessa because she is actively making a deal with Ares.

    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I thought about that, but being on SS never stopped Harley from having like 5 books at a time, so I don't think it should hinder Hypnotic Woman from being on multiple teams. Plus they (DC I mean) could always have it that Waller looked the other way about Hypnotic Woman and Villany Inc. because it somehow plays into her nefarious plot.
    Harley was on a whole other level before she was even added to the Squad though. She was a bigger IP than the Squad was. Hypnota is nowhere near that level, so there is no guarantee that if the Squad used her she'd be available to show up in multiple books (if she wasn't just killed off).

    Deadshot already had an iconic story against Batman of his own (his appearance in the Englehart/Rogers run) before he joined the Squad, which was still more than Hypnota has outside of being an old school Villainy Inc member. He's now considered far more of a Squad character or Secret Six character than he is a Batman character. This doesn't mean much for the Batman IP, but for Wonder Woman fans who want to see her going up against her classic foes, there isn't much of interest with the Squad and how things tend to go with how it uses characters. Best case scenario may be a Captain Boomerang situation, but there's no guarantee.

  5. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Harley was on a whole other level before she was even added to the Squad though. She was a bigger IP than the Squad was. Hypnota is nowhere near that level, so there is no guarantee that if the Squad used her she'd be available to show up in multiple books (if she wasn't just killed off).

    Deadshot already had an iconic story against Batman of his own (his appearance in the Englehart/Rogers run) before he joined the Squad, which was still more than Hypnota has outside of being an old school Villainy Inc member. He's now considered far more of a Squad character or Secret Six character than he is a Batman character. This doesn't mean much for the Batman IP, but for Wonder Woman fans who want to see her going up against her classic foes, there isn't much of interest with the Squad and how things tend to go with how it uses characters. Best case scenario may be a Captain Boomerang situation, but there's no guarantee.
    My point is if they (DC) wanted to put Hypnota on a theoretical Villainy Inc. then her being a part of the Suicide Squad isn't really a hindrance. Like you yourself said, Hypnota isn't so tied to the I.P.(SS) that they couldn't strictly move her to this fabled Villainy Inc. team. Also, the SS team is constantly changing. There's no reason Hypnota can't be a part of an arc or two and then move on to this theoretical Villainy Inc.

    Also, since there is no Villainy Inc team-up that's announced - as far as I know - I don't see why an unannounced team-up should impact that the Future State issues and the spread at least created some precedence or at least prepping for Hypnota in a Suicide Squad arc or two. Me saying I would like Hypnota in Suicide Squad is not me saying I want Hypnota divorced from Wonder Woman. We can have both and have had both with Cheetah and Giganta.

    Lastly, as far as death goes, Wonder Woman literally just returned from the dead, and everyone's least favorite villain is only tied to Wonder Woman because of his death. Being alive hasn't given DC an incentive to use Hypnota, and death hasn't stopped them from using the characters they value for particularly long.

  6. #2316
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I think the cybernetic bases should be covered with Dr. Cyber and maybe Cyborgirl. What made Helen Alexandros so compelling is she was an "ugly" duckling that was turned into a beautiful swan. She reveled in her new persona, wanted revenge on mankind which she felt had rejected her and was willing to do whatever it took to hold onto her new status. That's immensely relatable, understandable and to a degree sympathetic. All that has been lost in favor of duplicating Barbara Ann's scorned best friend angle with increasingly diminishing results.
    Enh, both are good really. and so different you could have them both rather easily.

    As for the slut shaming and changing cultural attitudes someone needs to inform the people on Tic Tok, Instagram and freak Twitter where showing skin is still alive and well. I'm not saying Silver Swan should commit crimes in a negligee like a comic book version of a Victoria's Secret angel. She could get a new costume and retain her original motivation. Though as a bad girl she really doesn’t have to cover up, Amora the Enchantress, Emma Frost and the Goblin Queen Madelyne Pryor haven’t lost their popularity due to being scantily clad. Sex will always sell.
    Of course they CAN do it, but... that's not really the point. they no longer feel like it's "pushing the boundaries" it's just... there. It's not interesting but shifted to boring and mundane. Obviously it happens if a writer/artist feels like it, just... the reasons are not what they once were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Phil Cho
    This general aesthetic is nice. Beautiful, but a bit scary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I also like the Helen Alexandros version quite a bit, especially her origin, being a creation of Ares. Sure, her look would need to be modernized but that doesn't seem too difficult.
    Well the more I think about the Silver Swan situation, the more I think they could just have both of them. Two completely different power sets and sources of powers? The name is all they really have in common.

  7. #2317
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Enh, both are good really. and so different you could have them both rather easily.

    Of course they CAN do it, but... that's not really the point. they no longer feel like it's "pushing the boundaries" it's just... there. It's not interesting but shifted to boring and mundane. Obviously it happens if a writer/artist feels like it, just... the reasons are not what they once were.
    This general aesthetic is nice. Beautiful, but a bit scary.
    Well the more I think about the Silver Swan situation, the more I think they could just have both of them. Two completely different power sets and sources of powers? The name is all they really have in common.

    Sure. After Diana defeated Helen, Ares could have imprisoned her as punishment leaving the Silver Swan name up for grabs and Vanessa ran with it. Maybe Ares could give Helen another chance and she could battle Vanessa for the name with Diana in the middle of it all.
    Last edited by Dr. Poison; 11-25-2021 at 03:18 PM.
    Currently/Soon Reading: Action Comics, Aquaman: The Becoming, AquamEn, Black Manta, DC vs. Vampires, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Nubia & the Amazons, Superman: Son of Kal-El, The New Champion of Shazam!, Trial of the Amazons, & Wonder Woman.

  8. #2318
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    I agree there should be a non-Vanessa incarnation of the Swan but I have to say I actually do prefer the more metallic look. Doesn't have to be body horror or cyborg implants like with Vanessa but I think it makes for a cool look.

  9. #2319
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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  10. #2320
    Fantastic Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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  11. #2321
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I agree there should be a non-Vanessa incarnation of the Swan but I have to say I actually do prefer the more metallic look. Doesn't have to be body horror or cyborg implants like with Vanessa but I think it makes for a cool look.
    Yeah Silver Swan should be beautiful

  12. #2322
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Normally, I groan at butt shots but that one by Nicola Scott is....ooof...:: fans self::

  13. #2323
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Normally, I groan at butt shots but that one by Nicola Scott is....ooof...:: fans self::
    Nicola Scott draws everything beautifully .

  14. #2324
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Normally, I groan at butt shots but that one by Nicola Scott is....ooof...:: fans self::
    *Nichola Scott’s Nightwing art has entered the chat*
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #2325
    Fantastic Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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