Wonder Woman Rogues Gallery Appreciation 2021

[WonderScott]

The Wonder villains have so much potential that’s continually wasted via apathy.

Doctor Psycho, done right, is far more terrifying than the Joker. Circe, done right, will transform you into monstrous Beastimorph for her servitude if you displease her. Dr. Zuel, done right, will experiment on you and grow to gigantic proportions and squish you like a grape if you cross her.

So many fascinating, demonstrably evil places to take the Wonder foes if only effort was applied to them.

[I'm a Fish]

The Wonder villains have so much potential that’s continually wasted via apathy.

Doctor Psycho, done right, is far more terrifying than the Joker. Circe, done right, will transform you into monstrous Beastimorph for her servitude if you displease her. Dr. Zuel, done right, will experiment on you and grow to gigantic proportions and squish you like a grape if you cross her.

So many fascinating, demonstrably evil places to take the Wonder foes if only effort was applied to them.

If they took Doctor Psycho all the way he would get too intense for a book rated 13+, but that's what DC's Black Labels are for. Although Perez and Rucka both got pretty creepy with him in their runs.

In the main book, I would personally like more humanity applied to them. One of my favorite villains is Into the Spider-verse's version of Doc Ock. She was a greedy, sadistic mad scientist who was also a well respected educator with a social life and she even made educational science videos for high schools. I think giving villains a degree of a social life a fun way to explore their personalities more.

That's something I think the Harley Quinn show does really well. That show makes Lex every bit as diabolical as his Justice League Unlimited counterpart, but then he can't attend a villain meeting because his dog is sick. They gave Joker a genuine family and it didn't take away from his character one bit, in fact I think it did the contrary and gave him more hilarious dialogue options. They even gave freaking Doctor Psycho a family and social life and it was pretty fun, and it didn't change the fact he was a horrible human being.

Like, why not make Giganta a practicing scientist with her own lab and team? The comics only seem to use her for bank robberies now and forget she's supposed to be really smart. Or give Circe her daughter back, since the that was the only humanizing thing about her. Or maybe Barbara can be a college professor by day and then Cheetah at night. IDK, just give them some aspect of a life outside "how can we take revenge" or "how can we get more power".

[mathew101281]

The Wonder villains have so much potential that’s continually wasted via apathy.

Doctor Psycho, done right, is far more terrifying than the Joker. Circe, done right, will transform you into monstrous Beastimorph for her servitude if you displease her. Dr. Zuel, done right, will experiment on you and grow to gigantic proportions and squish you like a grape if you cross her.

So many fascinating, demonstrably evil places to take the Wonder foes if only effort was applied to them.

But the Joker is easier to market because he fits more easily into an archetype the average marketing person would understand.
Evil Clown is a rather common archetype. The most popular superheroes/villains are the ones that can be easily broken down into a simple, visually interesting, archetypical version. Once you have that version solidified in the public mind then it gives you the freedom to experiment and create really different takes. The problem with most of Wonder woman’s villains is that they don’t really have that strong archetypal version, yet the creative teams keep throwing new versions at the wall.

[Gaius]

But the Joker is easier to market because he fits more easily into an archetype the average marketing person would understand.
Evil Clown is a rather common archetype. The most popular superheroes/villains are the ones that can be easily broken down into a simple, visually interesting, archetypical version. Once you have that version solidified in the public mind then it gives you the freedom to experiment and create really different takes. The problem with most of Wonder woman’s villains is that they don’t really have that strong archetypal version, yet the creative teams keep throwing new versions at the wall.

Idk how much that really has to do with it, Circe is basically a Wicked Witch which is a more common and older archetype than evil clown, rather modern all things considered. Cheetah, Barbara at least, is pretty much a werewolf but if they were a cat and humans turning into bestial animals is also a fairly old trope in world mythologies.

[I'm a Fish]

Joker didn't really take off till the 90's with the animated series, correct? The Super Friends show is what gave Gigatia her size-changing powers too if I remember correctly, and she's had that power ever since.

Part of why Yara Flor is so popular is because she's already had a TV show announced. Two years ago most people didn't know there was a Batwoman in comics until she also got a TV Show.

I'd say a characters popularity has to do with how well they are adapted into a more mainstream media, like cartoons, movies, video games. Comics aren't as popular as they use to be, that's why it's so hard for new characters to gain any traction unless they are blasted all over social media.

[Dr. Poison]

I think I'm madly in love with this woman (whoever she is).

[Vordan]

The Wonder villains have so much potential that’s continually wasted via apathy.

Doctor Psycho, done right, is far more terrifying than the Joker. Circe, done right, will transform you into monstrous Beastimorph for her servitude if you displease her. Dr. Zuel, done right, will experiment on you and grow to gigantic proportions and squish you like a grape if you cross her.

So many fascinating, demonstrably evil places to take the Wonder foes if only effort was applied to them.

In regards to Psycho, there’s one very controversial area you could take him, that would on one hand perfectly fit in with the issues WW is built to confront, but on the other is extremely traumatic and sensitive a topic. But I’ll ask you guys:

What do you think of Psycho using his powers to rape the way that Purple Man does? I must admit as a reader it’s always struck me as obvious that a misogynist with mind control powers would probably force women to have sex with him, I don’t really see why he wouldn’t use his powers for that purpose, beyond the obvious reason that it’s an incredibly damn serious topic, one most comic book writers are ill-suited to tackle. Especially given how male dominated the industry is. So what do you guys think? Is that an area you could go with Psycho? It would definitely make people take him seriously, and it offers a chance for WW to tackle another serious social evil in Man’s World.

[Gaius]

In regards to Psycho, there’s one very controversial area you could take him, that would on one hand perfectly fit in with the issues WW is built to confront, but on the other is extremely traumatic and sensitive a topic. But I’ll ask you guys:

What do you think of Psycho using his powers to rape the way that Purple Man does? I must admit as a reader it’s always struck me as obvious that a misogynist with mind control powers would probably force women to have sex with him, I don’t really see why he wouldn’t use his powers for that purpose, beyond the obvious reason that it’s an incredibly damn serious topic, one most comic book writers are ill-suited to tackle. Especially given how male dominated the industry is. So what do you guys think? Is that an area you could go with Psycho? It would definitely make people take him seriously, and it offers a chance for WW to tackle another serious social evil in Man’s World.

It wasn't to the degree of what I've seen from Purple Man but there his bits in Rucka's first run hinted at/implied Psycho being a rapist/sexual abuser.

[Vordan]

It wasn't to the degree of what I've seen from Purple Man but there his bits in Rucka's first run hinted at/implied Psycho being a rapist/sexual abuser.

Right there have been hints, but I’m saying flat out confirming it, preferably via Diana working with the women he’s raped to help them heal.

[I'm a Fish]

[Alpha]

What do you think of Psycho using his powers to rape the way that Purple Man does?

Do we think Wonder Woman would approach the subject in a better way than Jessica Jones? Would a story with Diana feel as real as one with JJ? It would certainly push her in a degree I am not fully capable of grasping.

But honestly, I feel like there are other, less shocking issues that Wonder Woman should tackle. Paradise Island fullfills a lesbian fantasy the same way Wakanda does. A place free from the judgment of the last 3000 years, where they were able to develop independently. This has a lot of implications for the real world, "Man's world". We can explore the struggles of finding individual affirmation that isn't a response to either misogyny or the liberation movement. By which I mean, even after all forms of systemic discrimination are abolished, how can one become truly free from the need to prove themselves for their gender, and simply feel comfortable with being.

And what is the value of a safe space once those forms of systemic discrimination are abolished? Does it fuel informal societal divisions or does it actually provide a space where the mind can be truly free of insecurities and expectations put upon by others or themselves.

[Gaius]

[Gaius]

[WonderScott]

If they took Doctor Psycho all the way he would get too intense for a book rated 13+, but that's what DC's Black Labels are for. Although Perez and Rucka both got pretty creepy with him in their runs.

In the main book, I would personally like more humanity applied to them. One of my favorite villains is Into the Spider-verse's version of Doc Ock. She was a greedy, sadistic mad scientist who was also a well respected educator with a social life and she even made educational science videos for high schools. I think giving villains a degree of a social life a fun way to explore their personalities more.

That's something I think the Harley Quinn show does really well. That show makes Lex every bit as diabolical as his Justice League Unlimited counterpart, but then he can't attend a villain meeting because his dog is sick. They gave Joker a genuine family and it didn't take away from his character one bit, in fact I think it did the contrary and gave him more hilarious dialogue options. They even gave freaking Doctor Psycho a family and social life and it was pretty fun, and it didn't change the fact he was a horrible human being.

Like, why not make Giganta a practicing scientist with her own lab and team? The comics only seem to use her for bank robberies now and forget she's supposed to be really smart. Or give Circe her daughter back, since the that was the only humanizing thing about her. Or maybe Barbara can be a college professor by day and then Cheetah at night. IDK, just give them some aspect of a life outside "how can we take revenge" or "how can we get more power".

The key with Doctor Psycho is the psychological warfare he wages and he could subtly bring out the worst in people, let alone full telepathic control. That should part of his “win” in his style of evil. I think it’s possible to navigate within a 13+ rated book (which are sometimes filled with violence and the over sexualization of women - but that’s a lopsided aspect of how all media gets rated), but he hasn’t really been developed in a long time. I’d argue that he’s the archetypal sexist, misogynist man to Joker’s killer clown archetype.

I agree with you that more of their humanity needs to be shown and at play in their stories and within relationship to one another - that’s how to achieve drama and intrigue. But, creators have to want mine the characters’ histories and imagine new ways or aspects of their characters and portray them.

One of the things I’m working on in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee is building and explaining various Wonder rogues relationships to one another or if they haven’t encountered one another yet. Connecting characters makes a richer background for Diana and her allies to operate in.

Your example of Giganta is exactly what I mean. I’ve been thinking about her in ways that make her far more interesting than showing up as spectacular visual, generally in other books or in a DC-wide crossover from time to time. There’s got to be more to Doris Zuel and that’s got to be developed in a Wonder Woman title so she has resonance with Diana.

[WonderScott]

But the Joker is easier to market because he fits more easily into an archetype the average marketing person would understand.
Evil Clown is a rather common archetype. The most popular superheroes/villains are the ones that can be easily broken down into a simple, visually interesting, archetypical version. Once you have that version solidified in the public mind then it gives you the freedom to experiment and create really different takes. The problem with most of Wonder woman’s villains is that they don’t really have that strong archetypal version, yet the creative teams keep throwing new versions at the wall.

I mentioned this in my response to I’m A Fish, but I’d assess him as the archetypal sexist, misogynistic Woman Hater - or add him to that category. He’s got some mileage to go as a Mad Doctor of the manipulative Psycho Psychiatrist trope too.

I’d keep his telepathic powers as well play around with GA psionic powers of manipulating ectoplasm. Either make him formidable, but both make him more interesting in the type of things he can do, project, and/or create.