Arthur Curry/Orin/Aquaman - The King of the Seven Seas appreciation 2021

[Frontier]

I’ve been pretty bipolar about her run. Giving it a chance and defending it pretty early on to absolutely ranting on it later but I definitely don’t think it was a bad run in terms of writing. Though I didn’t like a lot of elements I don’t also think it’s irreparable. Outside the whole turning Atlantis into a democracy which Bendis seems to be following. I have a lot more complaints and some praise but I’ve done a lot of that in regards to the run. So I’ll leave it at that and just say if they were to get another writer on the series I’d hope it would be Steve Orlando who did phenomenal work on the Deep Dives series.

I did find it hilarious that the new democratic Atlantis still keeps the throne as a reminder of the past when Arthur will probably be sitting on it again in a few years .

I did feel like KSD kind of did Orm dirty. And Arthur seem particularly uncaring towards his brother compared to how their relationship was depicted before (and isn't this the first time they've seen each other since Thrones of Atlantis?).

[lemonpeace]

i dont know if this has been mentioned but is it just a freaking tragedy that an Aquaman title has not been mentioned at all in the latest dc/connect for May?!

did KSD do irreparable damage to the title?

it didn't do any damage, as far as I've seen it's mostly well recieved. I don't think it was super acclaimed or anything (tho, I typically don't look out into reviews for runs I'm enjoying too often) but i don't remember seeing any serious criticism. it was probably the biggest departure in terms of creative direction since rebirth, definitely a softer more intimate tone and i feel it may have leaned less on the previous run than fans expected. the biggest issue (or most regular one) I saw was aesthetics, i.e "put on a shirt" "shave him, he looks like a beach bum!" "uuughhhh I hate synergy! MAMOAAAA" etc etc, but overall I think most descenting opinions boiled down to taste. kinda a "if it's for you, it's for you, and if it's not, it wasn't" situation, but nothing really technically wrong with the run overall. it wasn't the hypest run tho, so i don't think it sold extraordinarily.

[MadFacedKid]

I did find it hilarious that the new democratic Atlantis still keeps the throne as a reminder of the past when Arthur will probably be sitting on it again in a few years .

I did feel like KSD kind of did Orm dirty. And Arthur seem particularly uncaring towards his brother compared to how their relationship was depicted before (and isn't this the first time they've seen each other since Thrones of Atlantis?).

Yeah I doubt Aquaman will never be king again. It seems popular in comics lately to abolish monarchies but I’d imagine it’s not permanent. Especially with him just getting the role in his film I assume.

In KSD’s defense I guess Abnett did Orm dirty first she kind of just ran with the interpretation of Ocean Master that Abnett introduced. Who seemed dangerous to any growth of a fan base awfully like his Silver Age/Post-Crisis self. It’s tragic that they’re reunion nonetheless was handled in the manner it was in. We were originally teased to some epic event where the idea of them being reunited would be in Rise of The Seven Seas and then we got that instead.

[MadFacedKid]

it didn't do any damage, as far as I've seen it's mostly well recieved. I don't think it was super acclaimed or anything (tho, I typically don't look out into reviews for runs I'm enjoying too often) but i don't remember seeing any serious criticism. it was probably the biggest departure in terms of creative direction since rebirth, definitely a softer more intimate tone and i feel it may have leaned less on the previous run than fans expected. the biggest issue (or most regular one) I saw was aesthetics, i.e "put on a shirt" "shave him, he looks like a beach bum!" "uuughhhh I hate synergy! MAMOAAAA" etc etc, but overall I think most descenting opinions boiled down to taste. kinda a "if it's for you, it's for you, and if it's not, it wasn't" situation, but nothing really technically wrong with the run overall. it wasn't the hypest run tho, so i don't think it sold extraordinarily.

Eh... I could list a bunch of things. I was trying to avoid this but your post implying her run was bad because people didn’t want movie synergy is not on point. Cause I personally despite not wanting Aquaman to have tattoos or long hair or a beard could of got over that. My issue was stuff like

1.) We were told he died in Drowned Earth in some major noble sacrifice. KSD could of started on that premise with her amnesia story. But she had him “killed” by Mera which is a good feat for her but undermines the titular character and makes him look weak. To make it worse they act like it didn’t even happen when they reunite and Mera has no sympathy for potentially killing her lover.

2.) This complaint was brought up by others. But in terms of the lore the Amnesia plot has been done before it’s tiring. Not just for comic book characters but Aquaman in specific.

3.) I’d argue the lack of action in the run hurt the title in on itself. With Johns we had big showdowns with Ocean Master, Atlan, Black Manta with the relics, Parker in his short run gave us Karaku, Hercules, and Chimera, Abnett gave us The Abyssal Dark, Deadwater, Superman. KSD had that epic Namma fight at the start of her run but coming into it and showcasing it she said she wanted to do a character breakdown and explore Aquaman’s trauma. Which would be interesting I guess but no one necessarily looks for that in their month to month comic series. It probably wasn’t the best time to be experimenting stuff like that overall with just getting the title handled over. In other runs we got more of a showcase of what Arthur is capable of doing. Which I’m not saying she didn’t have any action in her run I’m just saying it wasn’t as heavy as you’d expect from previous runs or even the movie.

4.) Back on the Amnesia premise a lot of people thought the supporting cast we were originally following from New52 to Rebirth were replaced by Callie and the Gods of the Pacific Ocean. No ones seems fond of coming into something and everything changing without knowing what exactly is going on. The Bunn’s run should of indicated that’s a dangerous format without gaining the readers trust.

5.) Some of it wasn’t necessarily on KSD but on the name a lot of people associate her with stuff they don’t want in their comics cause of politics. You could legit type KSD Aquaman, and find maybe some really ridiculous videos and might find some with actual valid points.

6.) She wasn’t consistent on the series. Her leaving for issues definitely probably help tank a already tanking book.

7.) Personally I wasn’t fond of stuff like turning Atlantis into a democracy, the treatment of Orm, Arthur or Mera thinking it was a good idea to let the Atlanteans govern themselves. I can’t fault her for putting Mera on the throne. That was Abnett’s dumb idea but given the history of Atlantis the stuff she made Aquaman and Mera decide was ridiculous and didn’t make sense. It wasn’t consistent to what we know of Atlantis. Ocean Master wasn’t consistent to the way he’s been written pre-Abnett. Atlantis out of nowhere is this progressive nation apparently thousands of years of being close minded, fearing of the surface world and not open minded to learn about it was ended by Mera somehow or logically her and Arthur finally decided they have had enough with Atlantis and said screw if they sink the world we can still swim.

[Frontier]

In KSD’s defense I guess Abnett did Orm dirty first she kind of just ran with the interpretation of Ocean Master that Abnett introduced. Who seemed dangerous to any growth of a fan base awfully like his Silver Age/Post-Crisis self. It’s tragic that they’re reunion nonetheless was handled in the manner it was in. We were originally teased to some epic event where the idea of them being reunited would be in Rise of The Seven Seas and then we got that instead.

Abnett's Ocean Master was fine in my opinion up until he decided to throw caution to the wind and betray Mera with Nereus, and then everyone pretty much wrote him off as a lost cause. I feel like he should've been kept more nuanced than that.

We'll probably never see it but I do kind of wonder what Rise of the Seven Seas would've been like.

1.) We were told he died in Drowned Earth in some major noble sacrifice. KSD could of started on that premise with her amnesia story. But she had him “killed” by Mera which is a good feat for her but undermines the titular character and makes him look weak. To make it worse they act like it didn’t even happen when they reunite and Mera has no sympathy for potentially killing her lover.

And she even makes a joke about it in the final issue, even though that's...not really something to joke about?

[MadFacedKid]

Eh. I disagree on Ocean Master I think Abnett was in a tricky spot given that the last time we saw Orm was for the prelude to RoT7S so anything not that would of lessened his return. But it was made worse given he had Orm abandon this family that he decided to live with for awhile now. For little to no reason. I’m confused on how stuff like Aquaman being held captive by the US Govt, the Whole Atlantis embassy on land, with it rising above the waters, or the head of state being hospitalized by Shaggyman all seemed to miss Orm’s attention. It all kind of lessened his return because with an event like RoT7S we could of got the idea that he was off doing something he was busy planning and learning more about his nations history and give him some motivation on why he now thinks he must take the crown of Atlantis.

Instead we didn’t get much of any background on why all of this stuff missed his radar. I don’t think playing catch with his adopted son or sleeping with Erin is any good reason that any of this stuff would go outside his gaze.

A lesser nitpick was he hyped up Mera by belittling Orm as well. In Throne of Atlantis we were introduced to a guy who went head to head with the Justice League, and Mera herself was struggling to prevent him from flooding Boston I believe it was. But now under Abnett’s pen a weakened Mera is too much for Orm and he has to resort to default Scar/Loki (Insert any other generic evil brother/prince) type trickery to “win”. Abnett turned Orm from noble to cowardly.


I honestly don’t even know what to say about the whole Mera killing Arthur thing. But that’s honestly probably the hands down worst thing about the recent run. I don’t get how that could be just ignored or glossed over. Arthur has to be really forgiving, fearless or really terrified of Mera. Mera is practically a domestic abuser. (Which ironically....) well I mean this woman potentially kills her lover. Doesn’t tell anyone about it or even look for him to see if he’s alive or ok. He telepathically makes a call out and then she’s like oh he survived. Still doesn’t try to reunite with him and it’s not touched upon at all. Is there guilt? Any shame? Sorrow? We don’t really get deep into that.

[Frontier]

Eh. I disagree on Ocean Master I think Abnett was in a tricky spot given that the last time we saw Orm was for the prelude to RoT7S so anything not that would of lessened his return. But it was made worse given he had Orm abandon this family that he decided to live with for awhile now. For little to no reason. I’m confused on how stuff like Aquaman being held captive by the US Govt, the Whole Atlantis embassy on land, with it rising above the waters, or the head of state being hospitalized by Shaggyman all seemed to miss Orm’s attention. It all kind of lessened his return because with an event like RoT7S we could of got the idea that he was off doing something he was busy planning and learning more about his nations history and give him some motivation on why he now thinks he must take the crown of Atlantis.

Instead we didn’t get much of any background on why all of this stuff missed his radar. I don’t think playing catch with his adopted son or sleeping with Erin is any good reason that any of this stuff would go outside his gaze.

A lesser nitpick was he hyped up Mera by belittling Orm as well. In Throne of Atlantis we were introduced to a guy who went head to head with the Justice League, and Mera herself was struggling to prevent him from flooding Boston I believe it was. But now under Abnett’s pen a weakened Mera is too much for Orm and he has to resort to default Scar/Loki (Insert any other generic evil brother/prince) type trickery to “win”. Abnett turned Orm from noble to cowardly.


I honestly don’t even know what to say about the whole Mera killing Arthur thing. But that’s honestly probably the hands down worst thing about the recent run. I don’t get how that could be just ignored or glossed over. Arthur has to be really forgiving, fearless or really terrified of Mera. Mera is practically a domestic abuser. (Which ironically....) well I mean this woman potentially kills her lover. Doesn’t tell anyone about it or even look for him to see if he’s alive or ok. He telepathically makes a call out and then she’s like oh he survived. Still doesn’t try to reunite with him and it’s not touched upon at all. Is there guilt? Any shame? Sorrow? We don’t really get deep into that.

I think we can both agree that Orm hasn't been used as well since Johns wrote him.

Yeah, the whole "Mera killing Arthur" thing was definitely not the best moment in this run.

[sifighter]

So I’ve been thinking that with a lot of characters returning in DC including a few superhero children, do you think that there is room to bring Koryak back?

And for those who don’t know who that is, he is Aquaman’s illegitimate son that he had with an Inuit woman named Kako in Alaska. He apparently died at some point but it’s not like that’s stopped anyone in comics before.

Edit: Actually now that I’m bringing it up, if all of continuity is back it’s actually kind of messed up that two out of three of Aquaman’s kids are dead.

[MadFacedKid]

I’d honestly rather get A.J. then Koryak tbh. I think the best we could get for Koryak is

A.) He’s from another timeline/dimension
B.) Bring back Thanatos and make him Koryak’s father
C.) He exist in the main timeline but he’s not Aquaman’s kid
D.) Integrate some of his characteristics in either Andrina or A.J. and Koryak could be a name akin to Orin for Arthur

The way they set up Aquaman it’s hard to have him have a kid with anyone but Mera. Even with everything having happened in the timeline it’s still an issue of everything actually have happened in the timeline given how does it fit in and how do they make it work.

Hell you could bring back Quisp even and have him warp Koryak into existence. Hell I have this story idea right now in my head. That would be one of those 4th wall types.

[sifighter]

Oh yeah, I forgot Aquaman had his own fifth dimensional trouble maker. That would be a good story if Quisp just brought Koryak back because he wanted to see how it messed with Arthur’s home life with Mera and Andy.

[Frontier]

Oh yeah, I forgot Aquaman had his own fifth dimensional trouble maker. That would be a good story if Quisp just brought Koryak back because he wanted to see how it messed with Arthur’s home life with Mera and Andy.

J'onn had one too.

[MadFacedKid]

You have a scan of Martian Manhunter’s imp? That’s wild to me I don’t think I ever seen that.

[Hypo]

Might have already been posted here but noticed this on the penguin random house website:

https://www.penguinrandomhouseretail...=9781779510198

DC celebrates the 80-year history of the King of the Seven Seas, Aquaman!

This new hardcover includes Aquaman's most memorable appearances, from his 1940's debut in the pages of More Fun Comics #73 to recent classics from top creators including Geoff Johns and more! Discover the stories that shaped the hero of the seas! Collects stories from Aquaman #0-37, JLA: Our Worlds at War #1, Aquaman #17, Outsiders: Five of a Kind - Metamorpho/Aquaman #1, Adventure Comics #120-137, 232-266, 269-475, More Fun Comics #73, Aquaman #11-35, 46-62, Aquaman #1; Aquaman #1; Aquaman Special #1 and Aquaman #25.

[Frontier]

You have a scan of Martian Manhunter’s imp? That’s wild to me I don’t think I ever seen that.

His name was Zook.

[MadFacedKid]

Appreciate you. Was he ever said to be a Imp from the 5th Dimension I didn’t see it listed?