Arthur Curry/Orin/Aquaman - The King of the Seven Seas appreciation 2021

[Frontier]

Another variant for the special:



And this appears to be art from the Marguerite Bennett/Trungles story in the special - seemingly set on the DC Bombshells earth:

Oh yeah, I kind of forgot Arthur was in that series.

[Robanker]

Honestly not a fan of Rocha's art, I would have preferred that the 2010 decade variant would have been made by Reis, he was after all part of the creative team that redefined Arthur Curry. It was that Aquaman that defined the decade, not the one that was part of him being cancelled.

While I don't share your opinions on the KSD run, I do love that Reis Aquaman and I would love to see him get a variant, even if it's retailer exclusive. I think the justification here is that as the most current variant, it represents Arthur in the now: father and drummer in a Norwegian Nu Metal band.

[Goldrake]

While I don't share your opinions on the KSD run, I do love that Reis Aquaman and I would love to see him get a variant, even if it's retailer exclusive. I think the justification here is that as the most current variant, it represents Arthur in the now: father and drummer in a Norwegian Nu Metal band.

I know I am one of the few to like KSD run, otherwise if it was that popular it would have not ended being canceled.
However despite how much I liked her run, Rocha is not my favorite, I prefer Mendonca who did a great job in the second part of her run. He discarded that awful Mera costume Rocha came up with, one of the most awful she ever had. Gave Arthur a shirt among other things.
The variants are meant to represent what defined the decade, Reis as I said was part of the creative team that defined not just the decade, but redefined Arthur in general.

[Robanker]

I know I am one of the few to like KSD run, otherwise if it was that popular it would have not ended being canceled.
However despite how much I liked her run, Rocha is not my favorite, I prefer Mendonca who did a great job in the second part of her run. He discarded that awful Mera costume Rocha came up with, one of the most awful she ever had. Gave Arthur a shirt among other things.
The variants are meant to represent what defined the decade, Reis as I said was part of the creative team that defined not just the decade, but redefined Arthur in general.

Oh, I was under the impression you didn't enjoy it. I liked the KSD run too, and I prefer Mendonca but I think Rocha was great as well.

Arthur hasn't had a bad artist on his book in a while.

[Goldrake]

Oh, I was under the impression you didn't enjoy it. I liked the KSD run too, and I prefer Mendonca but I think Rocha was great as well.

Arthur hasn't had a bad artist on his book in a while.

Me? on the contrary I was one who had endless arguments with fans defending her run. TBH not that all things she did I loved, like that dumb killing of Arthur. It was unnecessary. But she was a breath of fresh air, tried world building which was missing since Johns, she brought in new characters, an Aquababy and an Aquawedding. She did stretch it too much and to be fair at times it was slow. But she left a book with plenty of paths to be taken, unlike what she found when taking over.
As for artists Arthur indeed had some good ones, even Medina in the Mera solo was very good. I believe his Mera is the best ever with that of Reis.

[Stanlos]

What's considered by Aquaman fans to be the best run after Peter David's?

For me it is the criminally underrated Dan Jurgens run followed by the SubDiego stuff. I know a lot of people go gaga for Johns run but his perspective seemed to want to Aquaman more of a Namor/Thor/Black Adam type character de-emphasizing his Aquaman trappings and glomming on other stuff to "try to make him cooler" when he was never un-cool.

[Goldrake]

For me it is the criminally underrated Dan Jurgens run followed by the SubDiego stuff. I know a lot of people go gaga for Johns run but his perspective seemed to want to Aquaman more of a Namor/Thor/Black Adam type character de-emphasizing his Aquaman trappings and glomming on other stuff to "try to make him cooler" when he was never un-cool.

has nothing to do with being cooler or un-cool. Aquaman prior to Johns was a laughing stock. Now ask yourself a question, why he was considered so, if the runs you mentioned from sub-diego to PAD were so good? Such was the state of Aquaman after those runs, that DC was considering shelving him and even attempted to remake the character as in sword of Atlantis.

Johns went back to the core, no more playing with his origins as PAD did by making him the son of a wizard etc. No more stupid water hands or hook hands. That made him even more ridiculous.
To Aquafans most of those runs are traumatic experiences. Since Blackest Night Aquaman saw a renaissance fortunately and remained consistently in print for the first time in decades.

What's considered by Aquaman fans to be the best run after Peter David's?

Many Aquafans abhor PAD's run, let alone consider it the best. Only Some nostalgic of the 90's at most like it. That run was responsible to damaging the character as few others.

That said the best Aqua runs are
Johns
Parker
KSD
Abnett

[married guy]

has nothing to do with being cooler or un-cool. Aquaman prior to Johns was a laughing stock. Now ask yourself a question, why he was considered so, if the runs you mentioned from sub-diego to PAD were so good? Such was the state of Aquaman after those runs, that DC was considering shelving him and even attempted to remake the character as in sword of Atlantis.

Johns went back to the core, no more playing with his origins as PAD did by making him the son of a wizard etc. No more stupid water hands or hook hands. That made him even more ridiculous.
To Aquafans most of those runs are traumatic experiences. Since Blackest Night Aquaman saw a renaissance fortunately and remained consistently in print for the first time in decades.



Many Aquafans abhor PAD's run, let alone consider it the best. Only Some nostalgic of the 90's at most like it. That run was responsible to damaging the character as few others.

That said the best Aqua runs are
Johns
Parker
KSD
Abnett

See, I love Peter David's run.
When HE took on the title, Aquaman WAS the laughing stock of the comic book world.
It was David's version that got me (and plenty of others) reading the title again.
It was David's version that Grant Morrison wrote so well in JLA.
Love it or hate it, he DID drag Aquaman from the 70's smiling boy scout riding the giant seahorse into the grumpy, take no **** King of Atlantis.
Yes, he leaned too far into the angry king thing, and missed the opportunity to include Mera - but I still believe PAD did more good than harm for the character.
Jurgens take was great, and as you mention, so were Johns, Parker & Abnett.

[Goldrake]

See, I love Peter David's run.
When HE took on the title, Aquaman WAS the laughing stock of the comic book world.
It was David's version that got me (and plenty of others) reading the title again.
It was David's version that Grant Morrison wrote so well in JLA.
Love it or hate it, he DID drag Aquaman from the 70's smiling boy scout riding the giant seahorse into the grumpy, take no **** King of Atlantis.
Yes, he leaned too far into the angry king thing, and missed the opportunity to include Mera - but I still believe PAD did more good than harm for the character.
Jurgens take was great, and as you mention, so were Johns, Parker & Abnett.

PAD did some great world building, rarely seen in Aquaman, but he took too much liberties with the character from the retcon of the origins of Arthur, being made the son of a wizard, to literally throwing away Mera. He gave him that idiotic hook hand(still recall people saying what hero is he if he gets maimed, can you see Superman with a hook hand). The idea was to discard the smiling boy image, but it made him look maimed. He also had sons springing out from nowhere.

Throwing away the eternal dilemma of Arthur Curry divided between land and sea was so unnecessary. TBH that run had horrible art which made it look even worse. PAD run was the REAL first one after many years, at the time we had nothing else except that. Even myself liked it at the time, but revisiting years after, I began to understand why Aquaman was seen as a problem.

Abnett, Larsen and Jurgens who followed him, dismantled most of PAD work because it had gone too much astray, first thing done was to bring Mera back. Yet Aquaman until Johns continued to suffer from damage done in the 70's and afterwards.

Had any of the runs in that period of time do so well, it doesn't explain how it was continuously changed and retconned to try and find a solution to the Aquaman problem. We even reached a point in which Arthur was written off and replaced.

Such was the Aquaman problem To an extent that People at DC told Johns and Reis they were wasting their time and energy.

Maybe we don't realize this, had Johns not asked for the book in 2011, today there would be no Aquaman, they had given up on him. Johns was the person who remade him, If Norris created him in 1941, it was Johns who really gave him a new life.

[SJNeal]

There were a lot of years and other Aquaman comics that fell between "smiling dope on a seahorse" and "grumpy maimed asskicker". Did no one else read the Pozner or Giffen minis? The Atlantis Chronicles? Shaun McLaughlin's underrated '91-'92 series?

Personally I think where DC went wrong was with Eric Larsen. Love it or hate it, PAD's interpretation was more than popular enough to bring some spotlight (and decent sales) to the character. It was when DC replaced him with the guy with whom he was publicly (and immaturely) feuding with that the book started to hemorrhage readers. By the time Jurgens & Epting came along, it was too late. Even though the writing and art were excellent, the sales never recovered. After that it was a "lather, rinse, repeat" cycle of relaunches and cancellations until Johns put him back on the map in a meaningful way.

All of which is to say I don't think it's fair to a lot of other great creators to lay all of the credit for anything good that's ever come from an Aquaman title at the feet of Mr. Johns.

[Robanker]

Gonna throw some love for the sometimes-awesome-sometimes-awful silver age run. Warts and all, I kind of enjoy it more than I care to admit. My god, some things in it are absolutely terrible but the whole of it comes across as a sea shanty about the king of the seven seas and I dig it in broad strokes.

I love lots of runs, the most recent four (sans Bunn) were all bangers overall. Before that, it ebbs and flows. I liked parts of the Rick Veitch run (I like linking him slightly to Arthurian legend with the water hand. Feeds into his hero king vibe), the Giffen stuff, the Busiek stuff (I was convinced he was trying to reposition Mera to a better place) and the Subdiego stuff had some cool stuff going on even if I don't care for Arcudi overall.

But the PAD run I really can't stand. Arthur stepping out on Mera, who in turn is absolutely batshit nuts and awful. Dolphin being Arthur's new love interest and later getting together with his surrogate son. The overly edgy hook hand. All of it reads like "bros please think Aquaman is cool. Look, he's really a man's man!" It's just sad. It reminds me of someone who got insulted for being dumb and shouting "**** you, I'm smart!"

Sure buddy. Yeah, the hook hand is totes dope. Now carve me a ham you silly bastard.

[Frontier]

Gonna throw some love for the sometimes-awesome-sometimes-awful silver age run. Warts and all, I kind of enjoy it more than I care to admit. My god, some things in it are absolutely terrible but the whole of it comes across as a sea shanty about the king of the seven seas and I dig it in broad strokes.

I love lots of runs, the most recent four (sans Bunn) were all bangers overall. Before that, it ebbs and flows. I liked parts of the Rick Veitch run (I like linking him slightly to Arthurian legend with the water hand. Feeds into his hero king vibe), the Giffen stuff, the Busiek stuff (I was convinced he was trying to reposition Mera to a better place) and the Subdiego stuff had some cool stuff going on even if I don't care for Arcudi overall.

But the PAD run I really can't stand. Arthur stepping out on Mera, who in turn is absolutely batshit nuts and awful. Dolphin being Arthur's new love interest and later getting together with his surrogate son. The overly edgy hook hand. All of it reads like "bros please think Aquaman is cool. Look, he's really a man's man!" It's just sad. It reminds me of someone who got insulted for being dumb and shouting "**** you, I'm smart!"

Sure buddy. Yeah, the hook hand is totes dope. Now carve me a ham you silly bastard.

The one thing I can give the PAD run is it wasn't predictable.

[Goldrake]

There were a lot of years and other Aquaman comics that fell between "smiling dope on a seahorse" and "grumpy maimed asskicker". Did no one else read the Pozner or Giffen minis? The Atlantis Chronicles? Shaun McLaughlin's underrated '91-'92 series?

Personally I think where DC went wrong was with Eric Larsen. Love it or hate it, PAD's interpretation was more than popular enough to bring some spotlight (and decent sales) to the character. It was when DC replaced him with the guy with whom he was publicly (and immaturely) feuding with that the book started to hemorrhage readers. By the time Jurgens & Epting came along, it was too late. Even though the writing and art were excellent, the sales never recovered. After that it was a "lather, rinse, repeat" cycle of relaunches and cancellations until Johns put him back on the map in a meaningful way.

All of which is to say I don't think it's fair to a lot of other great creators to lay all of the credit for anything good that's ever come from an Aquaman title at the feet of Mr. Johns.

The writers that preceded Johns, I have no doubt about their qualities as creators but on Aquaman they failed, he was a joke before them, he was a joke after them. Can we deny that?
A great run leaves an impact on the book which stands time and is used as a measure of comparison for succeeding runs.

We tend to forget that Johns took over a character that was basically finished and destroyed by previous runs by all the altering and distorting the character.

Johns formula was simple, he avoided the trappings that many creators before him fell in. He went back to the core, avoided having supporting casts, discarded all retcons done, concentrated his run just on Arthur and Mera. Without need of having Arthur having sons springing out of nowhere, he rejuvenated him, even his appearance he was smart clean shaven, instead of looking as a wet Thor with a hook hand.

It saved Aquaman and writers that followed continued in that direction by building on what Johns, Parker, Abnett and hopefully any new creative writer will add to what KSD left.

.

I love lots of runs, the most recent four (sans Bunn) were all bangers overall. Before that, it ebbs and flows. I liked parts of the Rick Veitch run (I like linking him slightly to Arthurian legend with the water hand. Feeds into his hero king vibe), the Giffen stuff, the Busiek stuff (I was convinced he was trying to reposition Mera to a better place) and the Subdiego stuff had some cool stuff going on even if I don't care for Arcudi overall.

But the PAD run I really can't stand. Arthur stepping out on Mera, who in turn is absolutely batshit nuts and awful. Dolphin being Arthur's new love interest and later getting together with his surrogate son. The overly edgy hook hand. All of it reads like "bros please think Aquaman is cool. Look, he's really a man's man!" It's just sad. It reminds me of someone who got insulted for being dumb and shouting "**** you, I'm smart!"

In the last decade we had great runs as never before. We might have had before this last decade some brief exceptions but they left no lasting impact on the character. Still comparing those runs to the ones we had in the last decade the divide is enormous. The real pity in the last decade was that Parker deserved a longer run.

PAD with the dolphin affair he ends it in three panels, with no reasonable explanation and Arthur acts as if he didn't care and he had just used her. While still with Dolphin, when he gets killed, his last words instead of Dolphin he calls Mera's name. The main problem however was that Arthur or Orin as he had him called, was an angry arrogant middle aged man.

[Stanlos]

has nothing to do with being cooler or un-cool. Aquaman prior to Johns was a laughing stock. Now ask yourself a question, why he was considered so, if the runs you mentioned from sub-diego to PAD were so good? Such was the state of Aquaman after those runs, that DC was considering shelving him and even attempted to remake the character as in sword of Atlantis.

Johns went back to the core, no more playing with his origins as PAD did by making him the son of a wizard etc. No more stupid water hands or hook hands. That made him even more ridiculous.
To Aquafans most of those runs are traumatic experiences. Since Blackest Night Aquaman saw a renaissance fortunately and remained consistently in print for the first time in decades.



Many Aquafans abhor PAD's run, let alone consider it the best. Only Some nostalgic of the 90's at most like it. That run was responsible to damaging the character as few others.

That said the best Aqua runs are
Johns
Parker
KSD
Abnett

The only people to whom Arthur was a laughing stock were people who only know him from the Super Friends cartoon. Comics readers never were under the impression he was uncool.

[Goldrake]

The only people to whom Arthur was a laughing stock were people who only know him from the Super Friends cartoon. Comics readers never were under the impression he was uncool.

Even so, still DC was so desperate that they kept changing the character and even wrote him off at one point in the attempt to make him work.
This is how DC itself described Aquaman on its own site - an excerpt of that:

What do you think of when you think of Aquaman? What words come to mind? If they’re anything close to “silly,” “inconsequential” or “B-level,” then you haven’t been reading Aquaman’s ongoing comic. At least not since Geoff Johns started writing it.
While Johns may not have the history with the character that he had with Green Lantern, his contribution to Aquaman is no less significant. Of course, to fully understand it, it helps to revisit what Johns has done with Arthur Curry since taking over as writer with Aquaman’s relaunch as part of The New 52.
In “The Others,” Mera says something to Aquaman that she could just as well be saying to all of us: “Don’t be like the rest of the world, Arthur. Don’t undervalue who Aquaman truly is.”
Thanks to Johns and the rest of the Aquaman team, that’s no longer a problem.


I love Aquaman been a reader for now decades, but I have to admit that through the years he went through some tough s*it. It was in New52 that even comic readers started to revaluate Aquaman. Many readers like to relate that Aquaman was one of the few positives of N52.

Geoff Johns said in various interviews: ” I'd say, and this big relaunch, I'm like, “I want to do Aquaman.” And people said to me, in comics, “Why are you going to waste your time with Aquaman?”
This summons the outlook Aquaman got from DC itself prior to N52, had he been cool or a character that worked, Johns wouldn't get that type of replies. Which also reflects how DC had given up, even in view of poor response from fans.