Titans Appreciation 2021

[Badou]

In other news... Deathstroke has been declared a paedophile because of what he did to Terra back in New Teen Titans.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...stroke-rapist/

Surprised DC would do this. I mean I agree that he has always been one, and how DC has tried to sidestep this aspect of Deathstroke's character has always been odd, but the reasons why they did at least made sense to me. Because Deathstroke is a valuable IP to them and no company would want to label one of their IPs as a pedophile because it might devalue it. People might not be as willing to buy comics or merch or support a character like that.

I mean it is why the vast majority of comic book villains are incredibly shallow and superficial. Maybe a few decades ago they were a bit more willing to experiment, but not so much today. They don't really want them doing things that would effect their value. Depicting things like murder or certain kinds of greed is fine, people aren't really bothered by that although maybe even that will change in time, but there is that next level of villainy/evil that mainstream comics don't really want to dip their toes into for their recurring villains. Things like rape, pedophilia, racism, misogyny, and so on. Things that can be very trigging or uncomfortable to many people. Like DC is never going to have the Joker go around raping and killing women routinely but him cutting the heads off of a dozen cops in an instant is fine. There is that one story where it is implied he might have raped a woman, and of course that infamous Dr Light story, but those kind of stories are so rare now. It's the same as DC would never want Lex Luthor saying he hates black people and is an overt racist as a character trait, or having some other known villain hate gay or trans people and kills them for it. Someone like the Joker is now more likely to say he supports gay people over saying he hates them in a story I think because him saying he hates them might damage his IP despite him being this supposed super evil character. It isn't really good business to have these kind of IPs be shown like that while at the same time trying to sell them as Halloween costumes to kids, haha.

[king81992]

Surprised DC would do this. I mean I agree that he has always been one, and how DC has tried to sidestep this aspect of Deathstroke's character has always been odd, but the reasons why they did at least made sense to me. Because Deathstroke is a valuable IP to them and no company would want to label one of their IPs as a pedophile because it might devalue it. People might not be as willing to buy comics or merch or support a character like that.

I mean it is why the vast majority of comic book villains are incredibly shallow and superficial. Maybe a few decades ago they were a bit more willing to experiment, but not so much today. They don't really want them doing things that would effect their value. Depicting things like murder or certain kinds of greed is fine, people aren't really bothered by that although maybe even that will change in time, but there is that next level of villainy/evil that mainstream comics don't really want to dip their toes into for their recurring villains. Things like rape, pedophilia, racism, misogyny, and so on. Things that can be very trigging or uncomfortable to many people. Like DC is never going to have the Joker go around raping and killing women routinely but him cutting the heads off of a dozen cops in an instant is fine. There is that one story where it is implied he might have raped a woman, and of course that infamous Dr Light story, but those kind of stories are so rare now. It's the same as DC would never want Lex Luthor saying he hates black people and is an overt racist as a character trait, or having some other known villain hate gay or trans people and kills them for it. Someone like the Joker is now more likely to say he supports gay people over saying he hates them in a story I think because him saying he hates them might damage his IP despite him being this supposed super evil character. It isn't really good business to have these kind of IPs be shown like that while at the same time trying to sell them as Halloween costumes to kids, haha.

I feel like DC is acknowledging Slade as a pedo a little too late. Its better late than never, but we had years of writers and fans making excuses for Slade or downplaying his crimes.

[Blue22]

In other news... Deathstroke has been declared a paedophile because of what he did to Terra back in New Teen Titans.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...stroke-rapist/

It's about damn time. Product of the times or not, Deathstroke is a fucking creep. And he's never stopped. It's not even just Terra. Or the Titans. They've been trying, for years, to put Damian in his sights too (Though it's thankfully never gotten as weird as the animated movies. It's bad enough their origins were tied together there but then you had that skeevy "I'm gonna have you calling me papa" line). Dude just can't stay away from teenagers. And that's not even getting into the train wreck that he's made out of his children.

I've been saying this for a long time. If you're gonna use this man, DC, Keep him away from kids. Starting with his own lol

As popular as Slade is, I'm not surprised at how they've been downplaying what he's done. But man, it feels good to finally have it acknowledged.

[king81992]

It's about damn time. Product of the times or not, Deathstroke is a fucking creep. And he's never stopped. It's not even just Terra. Or the Titans. They've been trying, for years, to put Damian in his sights too (Though it's thankfully never gotten as weird as the animated movies. It's bad enough their origins were tied together there but then you had that skeevy "I'm gonna have you calling me papa" line). Dude just can't stay away from teenagers. And that's not even getting into the train wreck that he's made out of his children.

I've been saying this for a long time. If you're gonna use this man, DC, Keep him away from kids. Starting with his own lol

As popular as Slade is, I'm not surprised at how they've been downplaying what he's done. But man, it feels good to finally have it acknowledged.

Agree strongly. I wonder if DC might try to retool/redeem Terra eventually. They have done it with Harley and sort of tried with Deathstroke at times.

[Godlike13]

How many times have they tried to retool/redeem Terra. It never works. She’s just not interesting as anything else. Different times or not, she was always meant to make readers feel uncomfortable and pervert their expectations.

[king81992]

How many times have they tried to retool/redeem Terra. It never works. She’s just not interesting as anything else. Different times or not, she was always meant to make readers feel uncomfortable and pervert their expectations.

They tried to redeem her twice, I think. Maybe the third time will be the charm. New 52 Terra was a step in the right direction, but everything else in that book was a mess. The whole Terra 2 situation was made needlessly complicated because writers could not seem to make up their mind. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but Terra is a character with a lot of untapped potential.

[Digifiend]

They could always base her on the Young Justice cartoon version. She was a genuine victim in that continuity.

[Blue22]

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but Terra is a character with a lot of untapped potential.

I don't know why you think you'll get flamed for that. You're right. Terra's a character who is ripe for redemption in some form. In fact, most of the failed attempts at doing so (New 52 and whatever the hell Slade's brief hero team was supposed to be) didn't fail because of her, specifically. They failed because the books sucked, overall.

I've been thinking for a while that I'd actually like to see her and Rose on the Outlaws or the Outsiders. Hell, maybe even the Suicide Squad.

Terra doesn't need to be "retooled". Her story is fine as is. No need to change anything about it. Just change what you do with her going forward. The only dramatically different take on her that I really liked was the version that introduced me to the character in the first place. Her counterpart from the 2003 cartoon.

[king81992]

I don't know why you think you'll get flamed for that. You're right. Terra's a character is ripe for redemption in some form. In fact, most of the failed attempts at doing so (New 52 and whatever the hell Slade's brief hero team was supposed to be) didn't fail because of her, specifically. They failed because the books sucked, overall.

I've been thinking for a while that I'd actually like to see her and Rose on the Outlaws or the Outsiders. Hell, maybe even the Suicide Squad.

Terra doesn't need to be "retooled". Her story is fine as is. No need to change anything about it. Just change what you do with her going forward. The only alternate take on her that I really liked was the version that introduced me to the character in the first place. Her counterpart from the 2003 cartoon.

I have been flamed quite a few times in the past by people for suggesting Slade did anything wrong or that Wolfman's attempts to justify his crimes are in bad taste.

I thought that Priest's Deathstroke was good(especially because he never tried to justify Slade), but Ravagers was awful, despite Beast Boy and Terra carrying that book.

Terra on Outsiders makes so much sense, I'm surprised that no one has attempted it yet.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Agree strongly. I wonder if DC might try to retool/redeem Terra eventually. They have done it with Harley and sort of tried with Deathstroke at times.

They try to do it in the same story that condemns Slade as the pedo that he is, actually. It's framed as Slade exploiting her using his social position, which neglects the fact that Slade found Terra because she was already a murderous sociopath by the time he found her. It also acts as though Terra's actions were always public knowledge, when in fact the Titans lied to Brion for a bit (don't remember how he found out).

I understand the desire to include progressive politics in comics, but the execution in this leaves something to be desired.

[Rac7d*]

Cancel a comic book villain? He supposed to do bad things. The problem is people trying to make him an antihero, which he should not be.

its hard to write on gonging stories with villains because they cannot win, so they go the middle route
Harley
They want to with Ivy but it betrays her character
Catwoman is less anti more hero these days

are they doing this to nip the synder cut batman film possibility
after ignoring it for decades and making deathstroke the one character from the titans to break free of his orgins

[king81992]

They try to do it in the same story that condemns Slade as the pedo that he is, actually. It's framed as Slade exploiting her using his social position, which neglects the fact that Slade found Terra because she was already a murderous sociopath by the time he found her. It also acts as though Terra's actions were always public knowledge, when in fact the Titans lied to Brion for a bit (don't remember how he found out).

I understand the desire to include progressive politics in comics, but the execution in this leaves something to be desired.

Slade claimed she was a murderous sociopath when he found her, but frankly, he's an unreliable narrator. I know that Wolfman totally wanted readers to take Slade's words as the truth when he wrote it, but based on everything Slade pulled before that there is no reason to believe his side of the story.

Honestly, I am surprised we never got a comic from Terra's POV. From a meta perspective, we heard about Judas Contract and the events that led up to it from every perspective except hers. She's alive and well in current continuity, so it would not be impossible.

[MadFacedKid]

4682B60B-BA56-4B6B-B086-ABA1AD8F1738.jpg
942C550D-820E-42F9-976D-A8488376298D.jpg

The attitude they should keep about joining the League.

[Frontier]

Slade claimed she was a murderous sociopath when he found her, but frankly, he's an unreliable narrator. I know that Wolfman totally wanted readers to take Slade's words as the truth when he wrote it, but based on everything Slade pulled before that there is no reason to believe his side of the story.

Honestly, I am surprised we never got a comic from Terra's POV. From a meta perspective, we heard about Judas Contract and the events that led up to it from every perspective except hers. She's alive and well in current continuity, so it would not be impossible.

I feel like in some regards Terra's perspective is supposed to come off ambiguous so you're never sure when she was completely genuine or faking it, even if she came off pretty messed up by the end of the story.

[king81992]

[QUOTE=Frontier;5459421]I feel like in some regards Terra's perspective is supposed to come off ambiguous so you're never sure when she was completely genuine or faking it, even if she came off pretty messed up by the end of the story.[/QUOTE

I never got a sense of ambiguity from Terra. If there was a sense of that, it got undermined by Wolfman's bizarre insistence of trying to justify Slade in the aftermath.