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  1. #121
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    What about Lois Lane that receives tapes from Sanctuary and decides to publish them to the public?
    Like, WHAT? Those were the heroes letting themselves being vulnerable and open up about their issues and you decide that to invade their privacy and publish for everybody to see like it's a good thing?

    There isn't a single character well portrayed here, maybe with the exception of Harley.
    Which is honestly kind of problematic in and of itself, but I guess that depends on your opinion of Harley.

    Personally I think conceptually there was stuff in HiC that were worth talking about, like the trauma heroes undergo and the help of therapy, but the approach to therapy and trauma, the murder plot and character assassination utterly kill it.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    The story as a whole was pretty bad. The setup of talking to robots, Wally "lozing control", most of the characters being from the Titans/NTT era... Just so much wrong with it.
    Let's not forget the big reveal near the end is it was an accident despite us seeing La'gaan getting straight up murdered in an earlier issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    There isn't a single character well portrayed here, maybe with the exception of Harley.
    Harley attempted to kill Booster twice with Babs essentially assisting her the second time. While perhaps in-character for Harley, the fact she can just walk away without any consequences makes the whole 'take responsibility for your actions' narrative around Wally all the more problematic.

    Another thing is it's hilarious how Superman refers to what happened as a 'heinous act' in his speech when it was the Trinity's negligence, arrogance, and recklessness that ultimately led to it. And again, they take no responsibility.

  3. #123
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    Let's not forget the big reveal near the end is it was an accident despite us seeing La'gaan getting straight up murdered in an earlier issue.



    Harley attempted to kill Booster twice with Babs essentially assisting her the second time. While perhaps in-character for Harley, the fact she can just walk away without any consequences makes the whole 'take responsibility for your actions' narrative around Wally all the more problematic.

    Another thing is it's hilarious how Superman refers to what happened as a 'heinous act' in his speech when it was the Trinity's negligence, arrogance, and recklessness that ultimately led to it. And again, they take no responsibility.
    Unless you count the Suicide Squad (which I know some do when it comes to Harley "paying her dues") walking away without any consequences has basically been the MO of modern Harley. Meanwhile Wally West ends up in handcuffs and imprisoned.

    It just amazes me the lack of self-awareness from the Trinity for how badly they screwed up or how screwed up Sanctuary even is when you think about it.

  4. #124
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    I'm against killing characters, especially when they are killed just for cheap drama and shock value. And the Titans are always the victim of this. Maybe because of some bias of someone that used to work for the company, maybe not.

    I said this on Roy's Thread, but i'll forever loathe Cry for Justice and what that story did to him. I'll never understand why would you choose to rip a character arms and then kill his 8 to 10 years old daughter, crushed by debris of a building just to make some other heroes angry at a villain.

    And then came Rise of Arsenal, that was another huge pile of crap.


    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Three Jokers wasn't a masterpiece, but it was a lot better than I expected and much better than HiC. Both were unnecessary stories, but HiC exists just to derail Wally and kill off a bunch of characters for shock value. The real crime of HiC was that it wasted an excellent concept. If a competent writer was at the helm, heroes, antiheroes and maybe villains getting therapy to deal with their issues would be a compelling story, possibly fixing characters who need it. Instead we got a hot mess and I doubt that anyone at DC will touch the subject of heroes and mental health again.
    Can’t be better said.. Roy & Lian both should be brought back ASAP


    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Undo a crappy story.



    The issue is that story will never get told. So bring all those folks back.

    Hand wave it like Hal-who took out how many lanterns as he went nuts yet everyone was fine with him years later.

    With the folks who were killed-the LINE to put Wally's head on a platter starts with the Titans themselves. Not just Roy but Hotspot, Lagoon Boy and others.
    Followed by Justice League who should have a few words for Batman.
    Hotspot had parents. Tattoo Man had a wife. All those folks including those who had ongoings had family and supporting cast.
    The public should have a bone to pick as well. Along with various villains.
    A hero tried to cover up a murder? I can think of various villains who would use that as a weapon to sway opinion of heroes in the public eye.
    And CRAZY Harley is SURE not going to let it go.
    Nor Poison Ivy.
    Nor Green Arrow.

    There is a lot more story to tell but Dc is not going to tell it. So bring everyone back.
    As should Hotspot

  5. #125
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    what about his death didn't make sense? he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. debate or not, not liking it =/= doesn't make sense, otherwise that's being intellectually dishonest.
    Not the death itself, the setup.

    Aside from robot therapist instead of the real one, it was something that was discussed in Crisis and Wally Appreciation thread about how Speed Force work and how Wally work that doesn't match the depiction in the book. It's been a year so I don't remember all the details (I haven't read many Flash books/lore myself), but the gist is, Wally has been through this situation before and pull through, and that the cause of death, Speed Force explosion, is not a thing.

    I believe it because I've been paying attention to how King write his stories, and he likes to add or make stuff up in order to tell the story or send the message he wants, sometimes inconsistent with what he already wrote before (the Batman series come to mind). His interview where he revealed that he wrote plot first, and decided after asking DC for permission, who will be the killer, convinced me further.

    Usually I'm okay with that inconsistency because he uses it to be cute and fanservice, but not in a story meant to be a serious character analysis, where he basically play pick and choose whatever character in order to make a point.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-20-2021 at 03:09 PM.

  6. #126
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Speaking of Roy, I guess his time as a member of the JLA and as Red Arrow is . Would explain why they just called Emiko Arrow in future State.

    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  7. #127
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Do we have any birthdays for Karen, Mal, Bette, Hank, or Don? I haven't read Blackest Night, but I understand we saw Don's grave - did it have any dates?

  8. #128
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Do we have any birthdays for Karen, Mal, Bette, Hank, or Don? I haven't read Blackest Night, but I understand we saw Don's grave - did it have any dates?
    Nah... just a massive RIP, their names (Hank's headstone's the same too) and In Memoriam
    tumblr_m43d4eYFLx1qa146zo1_1280.jpg

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Unless you count the Suicide Squad (which I know some do when it comes to Harley "paying her dues") walking away without any consequences has basically been the MO of modern Harley. Meanwhile Wally West ends up in handcuffs and imprisoned.

    It just amazes me the lack of self-awareness from the Trinity for how badly they screwed up or how screwed up Sanctuary even is when you think about it.
    A villain like Lex Luthor would have a FIELD day using that to discredit those 3.

    We still don't know what else Lois released with those tapes and files.

    We it just those who were killed or EVERYONE's files?

    How many folks did we see? About 20-30? If that was not a butcherfest-you could have done 30 one shots on those guys.

    We saw John Stewart-a PERFECT time to finally flesh him out-since outside of Mom-we know nothing about him or even if he had a WIFE. Yet know about that damn planet he blew up.

    DC could have give a starting point for all those folks for future books.

  10. #130
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    If Dinah didn't take her, since she was the person who care about Roy the most outside of the Titans, the Titans 100% would. Donna lost a kid too in this continuity so i have no doubt she would want to take care of Lian.
    Agreed. Donna was like an aunt to Lian. If nobody in the Arrow family was able to take care of her (we know Cheshire wouldn't want to), Donna would probably adopt her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    I'm against killing characters, especially when they are killed just for cheap drama and shock value. And the Titans are always the victim of this. Maybe because of some bias of someone that used to work for the company, maybe not.

    I said this on Roy's Thread, but i'll forever loathe Cry for Justice and what that story did to him. I'll never understand why would you choose to rip a character arms and then kill his 8 to 10 years old daughter, crushed by debris of a building just to make some other heroes angry at a villain.

    And then came Rise of Arsenal, that was another huge pile of crap.
    Despite a publication history lasting 24 years, Lian was only five years old, according to her gravestone. Born 2004, died 2009.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lian_Harper_(New_Earth)
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  11. #131
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Agreed. Donna was like an aunt to Lian. If nobody in the Arrow family was able to take care of her (we know Cheshire wouldn't want to), Donna would probably adopt her.

    Despite a publication history lasting 24 years, Lian was only five years old, according to her gravestone. Born 2004, died 2009.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lian_Harper_(New_Earth)
    Even worse.

    I clicked on the link and regretted as soon as i saw the third Trivia. I completely forgot that she was kidnapped by child traffickers in Outsiders. Jesus, DC.

  12. #132
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Agreed. Donna was like an aunt to Lian. If nobody in the Arrow family was able to take care of her (we know Cheshire wouldn't want to), Donna would probably adopt her.

    Despite a publication history lasting 24 years, Lian was only five years old, according to her gravestone. Born 2004, died 2009.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lian_Harper_(New_Earth)
    sliding time huh
    coz if we do it the Tim Drake time she should've aged around 5 years
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-21-2021 at 02:56 PM.

  13. #133

  14. #134
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Might be just a commission, but i wouldn't mind see a book with this team.
    Last edited by Drako; 01-25-2021 at 02:42 PM.

  15. #135
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Might be just a commission, but i wouldn't mind see a book with this team.
    Yeah if thatís Damian i see there I canít see it being an official book considering Williamsonís ongoing is about him cutting ties with Batman and the titans.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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