Titans Appreciation 2021

[John Venus]

What powerhouse? She gets the odd girl power moment to 'prove' how bad ass she is but she will be helpless when the next big threat comes along. Her role in JLD is to be a glorified red shirt to show how powerful the big threat is. She is the leader in name only because Constantine is doing all the leading and thinking on the team. Their whole relationship is build on him lying to her, manipulating her, keeping secrets which she gets mad at him for but she keeps coming back to him because she is incapable of defeating the bad guy herself. It's like Ollie/Dinah but 10x worse. She is glorified arm candy for him and in DCeased she basically sat back while he saved the day so she could be the girl he kisses at the end. Even worse, since she is also his 'beard' basically, since Constantine is one of the few prominent bi sexual characters in comics, DC can claim they are being progressive and supportive of LGBT but keep him in a heterosexual relationship in the show.

It's frustrating for those of us familiar with the Pre-Nu52 version of the character. It's a far cry from the Zatanna we saw in Dini's 'Zatanna' ongoing, Dini's 'Tec run, Morrison's Seven Soldiers who was a clever, fun, powerful, complex character who was just as skilled at regular stage hand skills as she was with real magic or from Conway's Zatanna in his JLA run who was solving problems almost single handedly and who felt like she could become DC's answer to Marvel's Dr Strange.

[Zaresh]

What powerhouse? She gets the odd girl power moment to 'prove' how bad ass she is but she will be helpless when the next big threat comes along. Her role in JLD is to be a glorified red shirt to show how powerful the big threat is. She is the leader in name only because Constantine is doing all the leading and thinking on the team. Their whole relationship is build on him lying to her, manipulating her, keeping secrets which she gets mad at him for but she keeps coming back to him because she is incapable of defeating the bad guy herself. It's like Ollie/Dinah but 10x worse. She is glorified arm candy for him and in DCeased she basically sat back while he saved the day so she could be the girl he kisses at the end. Even worse, since she is also his 'beard' basically, since Constantine is one of the few prominent bi sexual characters in comics, DC can claim they are being progressive and supportive of LGBT but keep him in a heterosexual relationship in the show.

It's frustrating for those of us familiar with the Pre-Nu52 version of the character. It's a far cry from the Zatanna we saw in Dini's 'Zatanna' ongoing, Dini's 'Tec run, Morrison's Seven Soldiers who was a clever, fun, powerful, complex character who was just as skilled at regular stage hand skills as she was with real magic or from Conway's Zatanna in his JLA run who was solving problems almost single handedly and who felt like she could become DC's answer to Marvel's Dr Strange.

Not that I want to divert your rant. I can see you have strong reasons to dislike the state of the afairs and the relationship seems toxic as far as I can see.

But as far as I understand the concept, a woman can't be a beard to a bisexual male. Because they like men and women. Both. And Constantine actually likes women way more than men as far as I remember. Beards were for gay men. Because they don't like women that way.

And now, following the topic, it seems to me, looking at your post, that the problem here is how Zatanna is being writen. I would center my complains to the writers about how she's written more than how John is. He does look more in character, to be honest. As I said, he's a bastard. But by your words, looks like they forgot the part that made him likeable. But that hasn't stop his partners in the past and they all have called his b*llsh*it before and stopped him from keeping using them in his schemes. Well, at least most of them.

[John Venus]

Not that I want to divert your rant. I can see you have strong reasons to dislike the state of the afairs and the relationship seems toxic as far as I can see.

But as far as I understand the concept, a woman can't be a beard to a bisexual male. Because they like men and women. Both. And Constantine actually likes women way more than men as far as I remember. Beards were for gay men. Because they don't like women that way.

And now, following the topic, it seems to me, looking at your post, that the problem here is how Zatanna is being writen. I would center my complains to the writers about how she's written more than how John is. He does look more in character, to be honest. As I said, he's a bastard. But by your words, looks like they forgot the part that made him likeable. But that hasn't stop his partners in the past and they all have called his b*llsh*it before and stopped him from keeping using them in his schemes. Well, at least most of them.

I would have agreed with you a couple of years back but now I think a case can be made wherein an adaptation can confirm a character is bisexual but then have them mostly engage in heterosexual relationships. Examples would be DC confirming Diana is bisexual while simultaneously emphasizing and expanding Steve Trevor's role, confirming John Constantine on his tv show but also making him and Zee seem inseperatable or in the Loki show where they confirm that he is bisexual but also made his relationship with Sylvie romantic. Sure they will ocassionally show Constantine and Diana's same sex partners but they are not as prominent as their straight romances. Maybe beard isn't quite the right word for it but it's definitely a trope.

[Veni]

I would have agreed with you a couple of years back but now I think a case can be made wherein an adaptation can confirm a character is bisexual but then have them mostly engage in heterosexual relationships. Examples would be DC confirming Diana is bisexual while simultaneously emphasizing and expanding Steve Trevor's role, confirming John Constantine on his tv show but also making him and Zee seem inseperatable or in the Loki show where they confirm that he is bisexual but also made his relationship with Sylvie romantic. Sure they will ocassionally show Constantine and Diana's same sex partners but they are not as prominent as their straight romances. Maybe beard isn't quite the right word for it but it's definitely a trope.

Wasn't Greg Rucka the one who confirmed Wonder Woman to be bisexual ( at least to him she was bisexual) in 2017, weeks before the movie was released . I remember many media outlets publishing this like it was breaking news/exclusive. DC haven't stated this themselves or confirmed that she is bisexual.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I liked the idea of Titans Academy more than the execution. The Red X mystery is it's biggest weakness. Maybe it would've worked as a season 2 plot. I'm hoping the next few issues can improve on the quality of the book.

If the batpack gets a spinoff, I'll read it.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

I liked the idea of Titans Academy more than the execution. The Red X mystery is it's biggest weakness. Maybe it would've worked as a season 2 plot. I'm hoping the next few issues can improve on the quality of the book.

If the batpack gets a spinoff, I'll read it.

Wasn’t it hinted that they may leave for another group? That could be the spinoff. The academy has to many characters and they are all getting lost in the shuffle. This book needs to be bi-monthly to flesh them all out more. Red X needs to take a hike already. He’s taking up all of the writing. I also like the idea of the academy as well. I’m looking forward to the October Halloween issue.

[Johnrevenge]

I liked the idea of Titans Academy more than the execution. The Red X mystery is it's biggest weakness. Maybe it would've worked as a season 2 plot. I'm hoping the next few issues can improve on the quality of the book.

If the batpack gets a spinoff, I'll read it.

Yeah the weakest part for me is the Red X mystery too. I think that if it had less focus on it the better.

[John Venus]

Wasn't Greg Rucka the one who confirmed Wonder Woman to be bisexual ( at least to him she was bisexual) in 2017, weeks before the movie was released . I remember many media outlets publishing this like it was breaking news/exclusive. DC haven't stated this themselves or confirmed that she is bisexual.

It was an open secret kind of thing.

Marston wasn't shy about his kinks. Perez and Karen Berger have said that they see Diana as bisexual. Diana would occasionally allude to the Amazons being in same sex relationships in other titles ("they don't call it Paradise Island for nothing"). In Rucka's first run he had Diana state that she is not looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend (and stated that he didn't face any opposition from DC for those lines) and then in his second run, he confirmed that Diana was bisexual and had multiple partners on Themyscira which lead to the big media attention.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Wasn’t it hinted that they may leave for another group? That could be the spinoff. The academy has to many characters and they are all getting lost in the shuffle. This book needs to be bi-monthly to flesh them all out more. Red X needs to take a hike already. He’s taking up all of the writing. I also like the idea of the academy as well. I’m looking forward to the October Halloween issue.

Issue 5 ends with Red X offering them to join him. They are on the fence about it. So issue 6 would give us an answer.

Yeah the weakest part for me is the Red X mystery too. I think that if it had less focus on it the better.

I'd be more forgiving if I knew the cast better or if there were other plots going on.

[king81992]

Wasn’t it hinted that they may leave for another group? That could be the spinoff. The academy has to many characters and they are all getting lost in the shuffle. This book needs to be bi-monthly to flesh them all out more. Red X needs to take a hike already. He’s taking up all of the writing. I also like the idea of the academy as well. I’m looking forward to the October Halloween issue.

Red X claims he/she/ they want to start a new group.

[Rac7d*]

Are we gonna talk about the nee season here or make a née thread

[Frontier]

Are we gonna talk about the nee season here or make a née thread

I would assume you could talk about it here as well as the thread on the TV board.

[OBrianTallent]

Titans Academy has been the least interesting Titans book ever to me (and that includes Team Titans and the Jurgens Titans team). There are too many characters, to little characterization as a result and no characters I have any interest in being used on any kind of basis (outside of Ms. Starfire and Mr. Nightwing which absolutely makes me ill to read that). I would have much rather had a book with the Titans: Dick, Donna, Kory, Raven, Beast Boy and Cyborg mentoring the previous group of teens Red Arrow, Bunker, Powerhouse, Roundhouse but oh so much not Red X unless they can pull something out of their ass and make this interesting and worthwhile.

[Digifiend]

Looks like the JLA team immediately before Flashpoint has been retconned as being the Titans. Infinite Frontier #4 mentions that Roy Harper and Jade were on the Titans and Outsiders together - but Jade was never a Titan, but they were on the JLA together after Jade's resurrection in Blackest Night.

[Drako]

Titans Academy has been the least interesting Titans book ever to me (and that includes Team Titans and the Jurgens Titans team). There are too many characters, to little characterization as a result and no characters I have any interest in being used on any kind of basis (outside of Ms. Starfire and Mr. Nightwing which absolutely makes me ill to read that). I would have much rather had a book with the Titans: Dick, Donna, Kory, Raven, Beast Boy and Cyborg mentoring the previous group of teens Red Arrow, Bunker, Powerhouse, Roundhouse but oh so much not Red X unless they can pull something out of their ass and make this interesting and worthwhile.

I had expectations for this book, i tought it could be cool, but i'm not enjoying at all. I also cringe at every Mr. and Mrs. (Blank) i read.

None of the new characters won me over and i'm already over the Red X Mystery, he is not interesting enough in this book to drag this mystery for too long.

6 issues (with the Yearbook) and the real Titans didn't made anything at all.

At least we have Titasn United, i just hoped it could be in canon.