Page 6 of 18 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 264
  1. #76
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    7,229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    This is one of the reasons why people cant take Black Mask as a credible villain as he used to be and why a crime fighting Catwoman doesnt work. When you have Catwoman beat up Batman's villains, it only lowers their credibility as a threat to Batman. Not too long ago they used Black Mask as a villain against Red Hood and now Harley Quinn. Black Mask has become a Batfam villain lol.
    Huh? Batman villains are Batfam villains. Most of them have fought each other. Jason and Catwoman live in Gotham and have lead crime families so they're in each other's cross hairs and on the same level as Black Mask (and Penguin).

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,921

    Default

    How would Catwoman beating any Batman villain lower the credibility of any Batman villain? Did Nightwing defeating Two-Face in Tomasi's run or Barbara smashing Joker's teeth in BoP lower her credibility?

    Plus, there are so many Batman villains farming them out to the Bat Fam is logical.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    How would Catwoman beating any Batman villain lower the credibility of any Batman villain? Did Nightwing defeating Two-Face in Tomasi's run or Barbara smashing Joker's teeth in BoP lower her credibility?

    Plus, there are so many Batman villains farming them out to the Bat Fam is logical.
    Jason's most popular story is his death while Barbara's most popular story is where she got crippled. Thats how Joker got to become Batman's arch nemesis.

    Batman's most popular enemy is the one that harm Batfam members the most.

    If Batman's underlings can defeat Batman's villains more easily than Batman can and dont suffer any loss, why tell stories with them as Batman's villains anyway?

    Nightwing is a special case because people see him as the most experienced Robin. I'd argue Nightwing's most popular stories are where he puts on the cowl. It is why some people say the only way for Nightwing to surpass Batman is to become Batman. But even Nightwing struggled with some Batman's villains like Bane.

    Catwoman's most popular story is where she romances with Batman. Not many are interested in seeing her as a crime fighter.

    Batman is ultimately the stable rock that moves the franchise. Not any of his underlings nor love interest.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 03-02-2021 at 03:57 AM.

  4. #79
    All-New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I think the upcoming Batman movie would still have Catwoman as a thief for Batman to catch so its not really just my opinion, its objective fact. Catwoman was not originally designed as Batman's supporting character, she works better as a foil as she was designed to be so. Nobody thinks of Catwoman being synonymous with a crime fighter but a cat burglar. Besides how would a married Catwoman have her own solo? Like is she gonna appear in Batman and then other writer ignore what happens in Batman to write Catwoman in her own solo?

  5. #80
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    21,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    Jason's most popular story is his death while Barbara's most popular story is where she got crippled. Thats how Joker got to become Batman's arch nemesis...
    Not sure how long you've been reading comic books, but The Joker was arguably Batman's arch-nemesis back before Jason was even introduced. (Even before Barbara Gordon was introduced.)

  6. #81
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Not sure how long you've been reading comic books, but The Joker was arguably Batman's arch-nemesis back before Jason was even introduced. (Even before Barbara Gordon was introduced.)
    Name stories with Joker as the villain that are more popular than the DITF and TKJ before 1988.

    What im saying is that the impact from these stories have put Joker over other villains in Batman's rouges gallery. Joker is not like other ordinary villain only to be caught by Batman at the end of the day. Joker is the villain who has done the most damage to Batman.

    In animation and 3 Jokers comics, they still adapt/tell stories showing the consequences of Jason's death and Barbara being crippled. Jason & Barbara dont have stories that are more popular than the stories where they end up as victims of Joker.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 03-02-2021 at 10:04 AM.

  7. #82
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Shoot.

    Cat*man*. Not Catwoman.

    It was a one-off version of Thomas Blake that never appeared again. I’m going to try fixing that now...

    I read the comics before.
    After I read your post, I looked up the comics and read them again.
    Batman and Catwoman teamed up against Catman.
    Catwoman even posed as a would-be victim of Catman.
    Last edited by Starrius; 03-02-2021 at 10:27 AM.
    I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire.
    It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/

    I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson.
    This page is for all the Spider-Marriage fans.
    http://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane/

  8. #83
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirson View Post
    I think the upcoming Batman movie would still have Catwoman as a thief for Batman to catch so its not really just my opinion, its objective fact. Catwoman was not originally designed as Batman's supporting character, she works better as a foil as she was designed to be so. Nobody thinks of Catwoman being synonymous with a crime fighter but a cat burglar. Besides how would a married Catwoman have her own solo? Like is she gonna appear in Batman and then other writer ignore what happens in Batman to write Catwoman in her own solo?
    I don't who the hell nobody is.............don't include me in there
    I hate when people generalize with the use of the words, nobody or everybody when making a point that appears to include everybody even though there are other people that don't have that view like myself and many others



    fictional characters in comics can and do change just like real people can
    even characters in the Bible have changed like Saul of Tarsus who persecuted Christians and became Paul , the preacher of Christianity to the Gentiles

    Catwoman has reformed and done crimefighter before at times
    She was even a protector of East End neighborhood in Catwoman volume II series.

    I was fond of some the 1980s stories of her as completely reformed and into crimefighting.
    I found the late 60s comic issue of becoming a crimefighter to compete with Batgirl for Batman's love and get Batman to marry her to be quite hilarious.
    Last edited by Starrius; 03-02-2021 at 11:27 AM.
    I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire.
    It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/

    I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson.
    This page is for all the Spider-Marriage fans.
    http://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane/

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    7,229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirson View Post
    Besides how would a married Catwoman have her own solo? Like is she gonna appear in Batman and then other writer ignore what happens in Batman to write Catwoman in her own solo?
    Yes. That's pretty much what happened with the Batman and Robin title. Damian's supposed to live in the Manor but he almost never shows up in Batman by Snyder or King. He mostly show up in Tomasi and Gleason's title.

  10. #85
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    I don't who the hell nobody is.............don't include me in there
    I hate when people generalize with the use of the words, nobody or everybody when making a point that appears to include everybody even though there are other people that don't have that view like myself and many others

    fictional characters in comics can and do change just like real people can
    even characters in the Bible have changed like Saul of Tarsus who persecuted Christians and became Paul , the preacher of Christianity to the Gentiles

    Catwoman has reformed and done crimefighter before at times
    She was even a protector of East End neighborhood in Catwoman volume II series.

    I was fond of some the 1980s stories of her as completely reformed and into crimefighting.
    I found the late 60s comic issue of becoming a crimefighter to compete with Batgirl for Batman's love and get Batman to marry her to be quite hilarious.
    Again what is her motive for crime fighting? Just because she loves him, she is gonna risk her life to fight crime with him. So when she doesnt love him, she gives up on crime fighting.

    You can write fictional characters however you want them to be but Batman doesnt become one of the most popular heroes just because he is written as a hero. He is a compelling hero. You understand what drives him to be a hero.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 03-02-2021 at 01:02 PM.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,921

    Default

    You should just read the Brubaker/Cooke run and see for yourself how and why she becomes a hero and protector of East End. The fact that artists and animators keep defaulting back to Cooke's design of Selina is a testament to the impact and legacy of that run.

    Catwoman has always alternated from being an antagonist to anti-villain to anti-hero to sometimes outright hero. She stole to survive. Which makes her a great foil for Batman who has a black and white view on the world.

    There have been multiple stories where Dick, Babs or Tim took down the Joker. It didn't stop DC from portraying him as any less threatening when he came back in stories like Last Laugh, Morrison's run, Death of the Family, Joker War or anything else in between. In fact, the main issue is not the fact that Joker is watered down as a threat but more that his ever increasing body count and terrible atrocities makes Batman himself seem weak and ineffective. That's true no matter how many side kicks he has.

  12. #87
    Praying Member zvrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    Name stories with Joker as the villain that are more popular than the DITF and TKJ before 1988.
    The Laughing Fish.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    This is one of the reasons why people cant take Black Mask as a credible villain as he used to be and why a crime fighting Catwoman doesnt work. When you have Catwoman beat up Batman's villains, it only lowers their credibility as a threat to Batman. Not too long ago they used Black Mask as a villain against Red Hood and now Harley Quinn. Black Mask has become a Batfam villain lol.
    Black Mask was sinking into obscurity long before Catwoman became his primary heroic foe. He never really joined the upper echelons of the rogues once Moench was done with him the first time around, until arguably Catwoman brought him back. He was last seen as a weird cult leader from a part of No Man's Land people moved past before that resurgence. He was always sadistic and evil, but so were Penguin, a Two-Face and a dozen other baddies who periodically occupied his “niche” as an organized crime badguy.

    Catwoman having her sister get fed part of her husband by Black Mask is what pushed him back into relevance.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    You should just read the Brubaker/Cooke run and see for yourself how and why she becomes a hero and protector of East End. The fact that artists and animators keep defaulting back to Cooke's design of Selina is a testament to the impact and legacy of that run.

    Catwoman has always alternated from being an antagonist to anti-villain to anti-hero to sometimes outright hero. She stole to survive. Which makes her a great foil for Batman who has a black and white view on the world.

    There have been multiple stories where Dick, Babs or Tim took down the Joker. It didn't stop DC from portraying him as any less threatening when he came back in stories like Last Laugh, Morrison's run, Death of the Family, Joker War or anything else in between. In fact, the main issue is not the fact that Joker is watered down as a threat but more that his ever increasing body count and terrible atrocities makes Batman himself seem weak and ineffective. That's true no matter how many side kicks he has.
    Yeah, to be blunt, the belief Catwoman only works as a crook or thief has been dead for, what, 35 years or so? She was moonlighting as an anti-heroic vigilante before I was born, and in main continuity as well!
    Franchise Wars Podcast and YouTube Host.
    TITANS pilot Recap, Reaction, and Review video! https://youtu.be/l1tKBTUtiyM
    The Force Awakens vs The Last Jedi https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=408109126
    Teen Titans (03) vs Teen Titans Go! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=400482734

  14. #89
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    You should just read the Brubaker/Cooke run and see for yourself how and why she becomes a hero and protector of East End. The fact that artists and animators keep defaulting back to Cooke's design of Selina is a testament to the impact and legacy of that run.
    The motive seems to be nolstagia for her past self & the past of her neighbourhood more than anything. It was just one of those times where she felt like being hero rather than just being a thief. Catwoman doesnt have a drive to be a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Yeah, to be blunt, the belief Catwoman only works as a crook or thief has been dead for, what, 35 years or so? She was moonlighting as an anti-heroic vigilante before I was born, and in main continuity as well!
    The character is not a pure thief anymore but she is not a devoted crime fighter. She is just a mix. A vigilante would not resort to stealing as many times she does. If there is anything, a vigilante would want to catch thieves. Catwoman's gimmick has always been a thief. She cant help but likes stealing. Its just that she becomes more anti heroic (self serving but capable of doing good at times) overtime instead of an evil villain.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 03-02-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,921

    Default

    She's adaptable. :P

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •