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  1. #346
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnafan View Post
    I never understood how "Daddy Zeus" added anything to Wonder Woman's mythos. I disagree with the argument that it makes her more "relatable" to have a father. Plus, that means Hippolyta betrayed one of her patron goddesses, Hera, by sleeping with her husband either knowingly or unknowingly. Either way that would have gained Hera's wrath in Greek mythology and would have made Diana an enemy of Hera's. Prefer the depiction of Hippolyta as respecting her patron goddesses, especially Hera. Diana's catch phrase alone, Great Hera, is a sign of respect and reverence. I wholeheartedly agree: Daddy Zeus can kick rocks.
    Azz has always said it was about giving a WW a simple one-line summary origin like you can do with Superman and Batman; Last survivor of an alien race, boy in alley who became an caped crusader, daughter of Zeus. There's also been the fan-rumors/speculation that many at DC simply didn't like or "get" the clay origin.

    Simone and Jimenez have also brought up how they were constantly given edicts in their run to try and appeal to the male audience with more prominent male presence, so I wouldn't be surprised if Daddy Zeus fell under that umbrella.

    Hera's interesting. Even though she's the Goddess of Women and the "Great Hera!" exclamation, pre-New 52 she was pretty much a footnote in Wonder Woman's mythos. Even when Perez expanded Themyscira's patrons to include Demeter, Artemis, and Hestia, Hera was the one major goddess left out.

  2. #347
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    She had a conversation with Naomi, letting her know how awesome she is. Does that count as notable?
    Man, I don't like it how I can tell that's written by Bendis, and I didn't even see the scene, just the description made me think "Oh Bendis is in JL" lol.

  3. #348
    Mighty Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    The fact that DC couldn't do "Princess of Themiscryia" or "Only daughter of Themiscryia" vs. Daughter of Zeus....gotta love men at the top.

    If Zeus had to be part of Diana's legacy, I'd much rather him be a jerk and knew what the Goddesses were doing and slipped in a drop of his divinity as an F-U to them.

  4. #349
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Azz has always said it was about giving a WW a simple one-line summary origin like you can do with Superman and Batman; Last survivor of an alien race, boy in alley who became an caped crusader, daughter of Zeus. There's also been the fan-rumors/speculation that many at DC simply didn't like or "get" the clay origin.
    Apparently no one considered "daughter of Hippolyta". I guess her origin only makes sense if she's defined by a man

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Apparently no one considered "daughter of Hippolyta". I guess her origin only makes sense if she's defined by a man
    On my less charitable days, I joke the big wigs at DC and Daddy Zeus defenders must just all hate their mothers.

    Though given how relatively unimportant Martha Wayne, Ma Kent, and Lara are to Batman and Superman in comparison to their father figures, it's not particularly surprising DC tried to graft that onto Diana.
    Last edited by Gaius; 12-05-2021 at 11:40 AM.

  6. #351
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnafan View Post
    I never understood how "Daddy Zeus" added anything to Wonder Woman's mythos. I disagree with the argument that it makes her more "relatable" to have a father. Plus, that means Hippolyta betrayed one of her patron goddesses, Hera, by sleeping with her husband either knowingly or unknowingly. Either way that would have gained Hera's wrath in Greek mythology and would have made Diana an enemy of Hera's. Prefer the depiction of Hippolyta as respecting her patron goddesses, especially Hera. Diana's catch phrase alone, Great Hera, is a sign of respect and reverence. I wholeheartedly agree: Daddy Zeus can kick rocks.
    That's because it doesn't add to her character. It actively removes from it.

    "First daughter of an immortal tribe of ancient warriors" is pretty good as a one-line description of who she is, as much as "last son of Krypton" or "orphaned boy come dark avenger."

    But hey, that's feminine and we need to add some penis to the statement. Fucking stupid.
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-05-2021 at 03:15 PM.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  7. #352
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Azz has always said it was about giving a WW a simple one-line summary origin like you can do with Superman and Batman; Last survivor of an alien race, boy in alley who became an caped crusader, daughter of Zeus. There's also been the fan-rumors/speculation that many at DC simply didn't like or "get" the clay origin.

    Simone and Jimenez have also brought up how they were constantly given edicts in their run to try and appeal to the male audience with more prominent male presence, so I wouldn't be surprised if Daddy Zeus fell under that umbrella.

    Hera's interesting. Even though she's the Goddess of Women and the "Great Hera!" exclamation, pre-New 52 she was pretty much a footnote in Wonder Woman's mythos. Even when Perez expanded Themyscira's patrons to include Demeter, Artemis, and Hestia, Hera was the one major goddess left out.
    For me, 'Champion of the Amazons', 'Athena's Champion' or 'Daughter of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons' have always been enough.

    I always saw Hippolyta as the ultimate single mother. It's really dodgy of DC to claim that a child *has* to have two parents in order for them to be complete or that Diana has to have a cool father in order to be special and can't be special because she has a cool mother.

    I wonder if the folks claiming they don't 'get' the clay origin also don't 'get' the the Galatea myth or the Pandora myth from Greek mythology.

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    For me, 'Champion of the Amazons', 'Athena's Champion' or 'Daughter of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons' have always been enough.

    I always saw Hippolyta as the ultimate single mother. It's really dodgy of DC to claim that a child *has* to have two parents in order for them to be complete or that Diana has to have a cool father in order to be special and can't be special because she has a cool mother.

    I wonder if the folks claiming they don't 'get' the clay origin also don't 'get' the the Galatea myth or the Pandora myth from Greek mythology.
    Yeah, on some other sites I go to New 52 WW fans would always bring up how weird they thought the clay origin was and usually (but not always) in the same breath say how much they liked Azz's run was because how "accurate" it was to Greek mythology.

    Though I think it's also just some genuinely just think "daughter of Zeus sounds badass" and doesn't really go any deeper than that.

  9. #354
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  10. #355
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Yeah, on some other sites I go to New 52 WW fans would always bring up how weird they thought the clay origin was and usually (but not always) in the same breath say how much they liked Azz's run was because how "accurate" it was to Greek mythology.

    Though I think it's also just some genuinely just think "daughter of Zeus sounds badass" and doesn't really go any deeper than that.
    Only thing reading actual mythology did was make me realize how inaccurate Azz run was to the myths and that pre Nu 52 WW comics gave a lot of love to underrated Gods like Ares, Athena, Aphrodite, Hesita and now Hera. If he wanted accuracy then he would have realized that Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares and that having the former sleep with her own grandfather and conceiving a child through him is icky.

  11. #356
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    Yes, that is exactly right.

  12. #357
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean if they want more of a male presence couldn't Dc do more with Steve? Not only that but that some amazons aren't hateful of men? If we are to use Azz's example of Amazons leaving. What if some amazons did love a men and leave the island or also they lived on parts of the Island that no amazon will dare to look.

  13. #358
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    Hippolyta on Historia #2 cover.


  14. #359
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    WONDER WOMAN HISTORIA: THE AMAZONS #2
    Written by KELLY SUE DeCONNICK
    Art and cover by GENE HA
    Variant cover by BECKY CLOONAN
    $7.99 US | 72 pages | 2 of 3
    Prestige Plus | 8 1/2" x 10 7/8"
    ON SALE 4/5/22

    The second installment of the jaw-droppingly ambitious history of the Amazons finds their future queen, Hippolyta, cutting a swath through the world of men, desperate to be reunited with the astonishing women who saved her life…but unfortunately for her, they’re hard folk to find. Perhaps it is the will of the Goddesses that they cross paths again…but before that moment, Hippolyta will gather to herself a tribe of her very own—and find that the hearts of all women do not necessarily burn with a flame as righteous as her own…
    So Hippolyta will founding the seventh tribe (called it).

  15. #360
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