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  1. #346
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I know it wasn’t completely erased after being a Horseman. It was brought out of him again later on when he went into the Underworld for a mission in a later comic book. I will have to recheck where it happened. So it is technically embedded in all horsemen just dormant. I don’t know if there was a specific event to remove it but if not then it is still dormant inside him

    Edit: it was in a mini series called X-men Hellbound. Where they go to limbo looking for Magik
    At a meta level, I'm sure it's the kind of thing where a writer could bring it back fairly easily if they wanted (or if anyone ever decides to write Gambit again, for that matter, lol)
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  2. #347
    Spectacular Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    At a meta level, I'm sure it's the kind of thing where a writer could bring it back fairly easily if they wanted (or if anyone ever decides to write Gambit again, for that matter, lol)
    I hope it is never brought back. I hated the awful Death persona plot line for Gambit. Absolutely hated it. Milligan's Gambit as Death story was terrible and then it continued to haunt the character for far too long. Of all the actually interesting things about Gambit that writers could expound upon that character assassination is instead what they kept revisiting. Polaris, Sunfire, and Wolverine fans are so lucky their Horseman personas were done and then forgotten as they should have been. Gambit is not Angel where the most interesting thing about him is his Death transformation.

    Honestly, I think the only reason some people like it is because it made Gambit more powerful(even if it is not Gambit at that point in personality or powers). I can understand that to a degree what with all the power creep that has been sweeping the X-line over the years(and yeah, I read Planet Size X-Men, sheesh), but I personally think Gambit is plenty powerful as he is, and just needs a writer to let him use his powers creatively and actually let them be as effective as they should be(not just flashes of light that do nothing to opponents).
    Last edited by thjan; 06-17-2021 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #348
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    I hope it is never brought back. I hated the awful Death persona plot line for Gambit. Absolutely hated it. Milligan's Gambit as Death story was terrible and then it continued to haunt the character for far too long. Of all the actually interesting things about Gambit that writers could expound upon that character assassination is instead what they kept revisiting. Polaris, Sunfire, and Wolverine fans are so lucky their Horseman personas were done and then forgotten as they should have been. Gambit is not Angel where the most interesting thing about him is his Death transformation.

    Honestly, I think the only reason some people like it is because it made Gambit more powerful(even if it is not Gambit at that point in personality or powers). I can understand that to a degree what with all the power creep that has been sweeping the X-line over the years(and yeah, I read Planet Sized X-Men, sheesh), but I personally think Gambit is plenty powerful as he is, and just needs a writer to let him use his powers creatively and actually let them be as effective as they should be(not just flashes of light that do nothing to opponents).
    Oh, I agree 100%. It would take some really good writing for me to like it if it was every brought back.

    Part of the reason I like Gambit is he isn't the most powerful character and so he has to be clever with how he gets out of certain situations (whether with his powers or skills he's developed)
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  4. #349
    Spectacular Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Oh, I agree 100%. It would take some really good writing for me to like it if it was every brought back.

    Part of the reason I like Gambit is he isn't the most powerful character and so he has to be clever with how he gets out of certain situations (whether with his powers or skills he's developed)
    Yeah, I like that he is not super powerful as well. I like that his powerset and skills allow him to work in both street level stories and big X-Men stories.

  5. #350
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    I hope it is never brought back. I hated the awful Death persona plot line for Gambit. Absolutely hated it. Milligan's Gambit as Death story was terrible and then it continued to haunt the character for far too long. Of all the actually interesting things about Gambit that writers could expound upon that character assassination is instead what they kept revisiting. Polaris, Sunfire, and Wolverine fans are so lucky their Horseman personas were done and then forgotten as they should have been. Gambit is not Angel where the most interesting thing about him is his Death transformation.

    Honestly, I think the only reason some people like it is because it made Gambit more powerful(even if it is not Gambit at that point in personality or powers). I can understand that to a degree what with all the power creep that has been sweeping the X-line over the years(and yeah, I read Planet Size X-Men, sheesh), but I personally think Gambit is plenty powerful as he is, and just needs a writer to let him use his powers creatively and actually let them be as effective as they should be(not just flashes of light that do nothing to opponents).
    Milligan was awful but at least Hellbound by Yost was fun. It seems that marvel thinks he must be a villain for him to have an edge. Witch is just weird.

  6. #351
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Oh, I agree 100%. It would take some really good writing for me to like it if it was every brought back.

    Part of the reason I like Gambit is he isn't the most powerful character and so he has to be clever with how he gets out of certain situations (whether with his powers or skills he's developed)
    Precisely. A great example would be his "battle" against a mind-controlled Gladiator!


  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    At a meta level, I'm sure it's the kind of thing where a writer could bring it back fairly easily if they wanted (or if anyone ever decides to write Gambit again, for that matter, lol)
    No doubt if they want to they will. Thatís the comics thing anything can be revamped with a single panel quote if they wanted to




    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    I hope it is never brought back.

    I personally think Gambit is plenty powerful as he is, and just needs a writer to let him use his powers creatively and actually let them be as effective as they should be(not just flashes of light that do nothing to opponents).
    Yeah I really donít care about the death persona per se. I more like it for the fact itís given to the most popular character at the time according to fans. When this happened for Gambit his character was like almost A list or even fully A list. Itís a reminder when Gambit was just launched because he grew popular so organically.

    Power creep is an issue and gambit works best as the unsung hero. He does things to help then goes on about his day. So I agree that creative use of powers is better than more power. He does potentially (potentially haha) have the power to do almost anything. But heís so good at steet level

  8. #353
    Amazing Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Is there a “street level” on Krakoa? When some folks are over here like: I made a planet!111

    Maybe that’s why no one has a use/purpose for Gambit anymore. He belongs in the real world and not Mutant Space Camp.

    I thought of the Death persona as his berserker freak-out mode. (I’d have throttled Rogue long before, tbh. Good on him for holding back.)

    I like him at normal mutant strength too, no power creep necessary. He’s plenty versatile. More than that tho, he didn’t want that kind of power. Given the ability to destroy planets he says: sign me up for a lobotomy! I don’t need this in my life.

  9. #354
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Precisely. A great example would be his "battle" against a mind-controlled Gladiator!

    So Iconic!
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  10. #355
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    No doubt if they want to they will. Thatís the comics thing anything can be revamped with a single panel quote if they wanted to






    Yeah I really donít care about the death persona per se. I more like it for the fact itís given to the most popular character at the time according to fans. When this happened for Gambit his character was like almost A list or even fully A list. Itís a reminder when Gambit was just launched because he grew popular so organically.

    Power creep is an issue and gambit works best as the unsung hero. He does things to help then goes on about his day. So I agree that creative use of powers is better than more power. He does potentially (potentially haha) have the power to do almost anything. But heís so good at steet level
    You know the sad thing is the Death transformation storyline could have been a really cool and interesting plot point if they'd have gone with something more akin to his New Sun powers and a better art design. A Gambit with barely any moral compass and unlimited power? Plus give us the epic battle with the X-Men that deserved. Also he needed a stronger motivation for accepting the Death mantle. It just was such was a poorly executed idea all around.

    Instead we got a farty bondage goth Gambit who makes a really poor judgment call for questionable reasons.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    You know the sad thing is the Death transformation storyline could have been a really cool and interesting plot point if they'd have gone with something more akin to his New Sun powers and a better art design. A Gambit with barely any moral compass and unlimited power? Plus give us the epic battle with the X-Men that deserved. Also he needed a stronger motivation for accepting the Death mantle. It just was such was a poorly executed idea all around.

    Instead we got a farty bondage goth Gambit who makes a really poor judgment call for questionable reasons.
    That would be a cool way to deal with Gambit power creep and even issues with New Sun storyline. New Sun as Gambits Death Persona would be cool. And New Sun didn’t even explore fully all the stuff Gambits powers potentially gives him control of. It’s a good way to appease fans like me who love seeing him go Beast mode and those who prefer the reality of Gambit. That way there’s no balancing act of his powers and gives it a way to come out on occasion without removing him from his underdog status

  12. #357
    Amazing Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Okay, from completely no where, plus the New Sun reference… I’d found this poem called Assassin by Harry Crosby that specifically references the New Sun and I kind of wondered if Fabian used it as inspiration in the first Gambit solo. Here’s and excerpt:

    “I write the word SUN across the dreary palimpsest of the world. I pour the contents of the Red Sea down my throat. I erect catapults and lay seige to the cities of the world. I scatter violent disorder throughout the kingdoms of the world. I stone the people of the world. I stride over mountains. I pick up oceans like tin cards and spin them into oblivion. I kick down walled cities. I hurl giant firebrands against governments. I thrust torches through the eyes of the law.
    I annihilate museums. I demolish libraries. I oblivionize skyscrapers.
    I become hard as adamant strong as battleindurated with solid fire rigid with hatred.
    I bring back the wizards and sorcerers the necromancers the magicians. I practice witchcraft. I set up idols. With a sharp-edged sword I cut through the crowded streets. Comets follw in my wake. Stars make obeisance to me. The moon uncovers her nakedness to me.
    I am the harbiger of a New Sun World. I bring the seed of a New Copulation. I proclaim the Mad Queen.
    I stamp out vast empires. I crush palaces in my rigid hands. I harden my heart against churches.
    I blot out cemetaries. I feed the people with stinging nettles. I resurrect madness. I thrust my naked sword between the ribs of the world. I murder the world!”

    Prophetic, kinda? That in Gambit’s solo, New “Son” crosses out Son and writes ‘Sun’ instead? Is this a crazy coincidence?

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoPony View Post
    Okay, from completely no where, plus the New Sun reference… I’d found this poem called Assassin by Harry Crosby that specifically references the New Sun and I kind of wondered if Fabian used it as inspiration in the first Gambit solo. Here’s and excerpt: ”

    Prophetic, kinda? That in Gambit’s solo, New “Son” crosses out Son and writes ‘Sun’ instead? Is this a crazy coincidence?
    The destroying of the world could be something. A lot of the details are kinda not lining up but hey inspiration is possible

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    So Iconic!
    Agreed.

    For me, this is the equivalent of the Wolverine in the sewers "now it's my turn" image.

    This begs the question of what is your defining image/moment for the various x-men characters. (Probably not where it should be asked, but yeah...)

    Cyclops would be the "To me my X-Men" moment/image in Astonishing X-Men. If you know, you know.

  15. #360
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Agreed.

    For me, this is the equivalent of the Wolverine in the sewers "now it's my turn" image.

    This begs the question of what is your defining image/moment for the various x-men characters. (Probably not where it should be asked, but yeah...)

    Cyclops would be the "To me my X-Men" moment/image in Astonishing X-Men. If you know, you know.
    Yeah definitely. Would probably be worth starting a thread for. For Gambit, it would definitely be this scene or "Bang, you dead"
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