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  1. #1021
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoPony View Post
    Thanks for the intel, Mal. No wonder Gambit is a caricature, if XTAS is the source material. That explains the falling down, butt of every joke, third-person speak crap. Liu is a big XTAS fan too, but she took the time to know Gambit and grow him into a big brother/good friend with emotional maturity. I remember fans panning Liu’s writing then, saying it was fanficy self-insertion. Especially if Gambit looked at anyone who wasn’t Rogue. Now where are we? “Self indulgent” is the description I can come up with about the last two years of Excalibur.
    Well my stance is pretty clear on Liu: I love her X-23 run. Astonishing is good too but there is a difference of quality.

    Tini mentioned that she started reading ordinary super heroes quite late. She read mostly from libraries before that. So stuff like Sandman and Watchmen. She mentioned she likes Alan Moore and I wouldn’t be surprised if she read his Swamp Thing too. I know I picked up those titles from libraries. Love Neil Gaiman but I’m pretty lukewarm on Moore.

    So stuff like XTAS quite possibly shaped her more then the comics. I have seen that people that start reading at a later age aren’t so attached to the soap opera part of it. The characters with warts and all. They tend to look at it from a another perspective.

  2. #1022
    Astonishing Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    Yeah, this is the impression I have been getting all along where the X-Office is concerned. Everything is sunshine and rainbows or nothing said at all over there it seems like. Excalibur has pretty much just stayed the same throughout its run with absolutely no attempt to address any of the criticisms or trying to research and better understand the characters. I don't think Tini Howard hears any of the criticisms about her run. I think she was told to ignore the "haters" by the editors and fellow writers at Marvel, and is shielded from bad press and tough interview questions by friends and interviewers that want to keep getting interviews from Marvel.
    I don't think editors care about criticism in general unless it directly affects sales, so I could see why they would say something like that to writers. What I can't figure out, though, is why TH was given 26 issues and then a new series even though her sales were not all that great.

    Quote Originally Posted by NicoPony View Post
    Thanks for the intel, Mal. No wonder Gambit is a caricature, if XTAS is the source material. That explains the falling down, butt of every joke, third-person speak crap. Liu is a big XTAS fan too, but she took the time to know Gambit and grow him into a big brother/good friend with emotional maturity. I remember fans panning Liu’s writing then, saying it was fanficy self-insertion. Especially if Gambit looked at anyone who wasn’t Rogue. Now where are we? “Self indulgent” is the description I can come up with about the last two years of Excalibur.
    Pretty much. If you're going to poke fun at a character, you need to give them something worthwhile to do to "redeem" them a little bit. So far, I can't say that Gambit has done anything of note other than a couple "cool" power things. But hey, let's give the Braddock family a bunch more page time
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  3. #1023
    Incredible Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Well my stance is pretty clear on Liu: I love her X-23 run. Astonishing is good too but there is a difference of quality.

    So stuff like XTAS quite possibly shaped her more then the comics. I have seen that people that start reading at a later age aren’t so attached to the soap opera part of it. The characters with warts and all. They tend to look at it from a another perspective.
    If they invested in characters we might care when they’re horribly tortured, maimed and slaughtered before resurrection. Can’t have that.

    Long form plot it is. Too bad I don’t actually gaf what happens to these non-people over the course of 20+ issues. Oh, they died? Good, now I get a break from their bitching for a few issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post

    Pretty much. If you're going to poke fun at a character, you need to give them something worthwhile to do to "redeem" them a little bit. So far, I can't say that Gambit has done anything of note other than a couple "cool" power things. But hey, let's give the Braddock family a bunch more page time
    Seriously! Gambit got beat the F up in X-23, he didn’t have to be a badass mo-fo, doing “cool” things. He got his ass handed to him, but he was compassionate, charming, protective of the people he cares about and it was great! His humor isn’t slapstick or this repeated cat joke that gets more unfunny with each retelling (this is why I “lost” my grade-schooler’s joke book she got for Christmas). He’s self-depreciating and the first to offer irreverent color commentary on potentially deadly situations.

    Just Egg him and have him come back as himself in a different book.

    Whatever CC plans for the mini it will at least invest in the characters.

  4. #1024
    Incredible Member Romy134's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Well my stance is pretty clear on Liu: I love her X-23 run. Astonishing is good too but there is a difference of quality.
    Speaking of past series how did you guys feel about Remy's portrayal in All-New X-Factor? I read it once but I really like him in it. I jumped off comics after Chuck Austen's and Peter Milligan's runs. But I jumped back in during Gambits Solo run. Over all I liked his appearances in X-23 as well, loved that Sinister showed up which made me feel like Gambit was really apart of the book for that arc.

    As for the Tini Howard interview you summarized I remember listening to an interview from Battle of the Atom podcast Ep.164 - X Of Swords Eve, where she described how the Excalibur book came to be. It just felt like the book and cast was thrown together last minute.

  5. #1025
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romy134 View Post
    Speaking of past series how did you guys feel about Remy's portrayal in All-New X-Factor? I read it once but I really like him in it. I jumped off comics after Chuck Austen's and Peter Milligan's runs. But I jumped back in during Gambits Solo run. Over all I liked his appearances in X-23 as well, loved that Sinister showed up which made me feel like Gambit was really apart of the book for that arc.

    As for the Tini Howard interview you summarized I remember listening to an interview from Battle of the Atom podcast Ep.164 - X Of Swords Eve, where she described how the Excalibur book came to be. It just felt like the book and cast was thrown together last minute.
    That is probably what happened. She has talked about how it evolved but to me it seems it’s more important what she isn’t saying. When asked about it she hesitates and takes the long road. She sounds unsure on what to say and how to say it. She knows it’s bad PR to say that it was a last minute scramble. Or perhaps that characters where added to her series.

    When reading the comic and adding what she says it all points toward that she was learning from issue to issue. Still is. It started with Apocalypse and up to X of swords. Some parts of the plot survived from the initial pitch/treatment/synopsis. After that it revolved more around what had been added over time. I think Gambit is a pretty good example of how it went. There are parts where it seems he will fufill some role or explore some idea but it is always just a picture of something. A collage mashed together to form a issue. Like Gambit with Candras gem. Some germs towards an actual story but it never goes anywhere. In the end he stays on the sidelines. He even keeps Rogue in the dark for some unnecessary drama that adds nothing. It’s all starts and stops.

  6. #1026
    Astonishing Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romy134 View Post
    Speaking of past series how did you guys feel about Remy's portrayal in All-New X-Factor? I read it once but I really like him in it. I jumped off comics after Chuck Austen's and Peter Milligan's runs. But I jumped back in during Gambits Solo run. Over all I liked his appearances in X-23 as well, loved that Sinister showed up which made me feel like Gambit was really apart of the book for that arc.

    As for the Tini Howard interview you summarized I remember listening to an interview from Battle of the Atom podcast Ep.164 - X Of Swords Eve, where she described how the Excalibur book came to be. It just felt like the book and cast was thrown together last minute.
    ANXF wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed it. His antagonistic relationship with Quicksilver was fun. And being able to calm Danger with his pure sexuality was a plus lol
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  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yeah pretty frustrated with this! Thanks for getting a hold of them Sandman's Raven! They never responded to me.

    I will give a re-cap when we re-start the thread after the 1st since apparently they're just going to lock all the appreciation threads anyway before then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    It did get deleted, unfortunately. I messaged one of the mods about it and it sounds like it was an accidental deletion, which is too bad since AppleJ had just posted 101 for the top Romy Moments.
    I had messaged as well and got no reply from them. Weird occurrence but doesn’t diminish how amazing the feat was apple sandman thjan and everyone who posted in the moments did a great job

  8. #1028
    Incredible Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    ANXF wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed it. His antagonistic relationship with Quicksilver was fun. And being able to calm Danger with his pure sexuality was a plus lol
    It was everything to me. �� show me a character that can make a robot have human emotions after he kisses them… like, what??? It’s like robot Sleeping Beauty! Disney, are you seeing this sh1t?

    ANXF had some off-notes, but was overall fun. Polaris fans were mad bc it seemed Gambit was the “leader”, but I think it showed growth for her overall. She started off: I’m the boss! And was sucky at it. Gambit, Cypher, and Quicksilver each had their moments when they demonstrated compassion, forgiveness, remorse, and she learned from all of them, and how to be a real team.

    But Gambit and QS’s banter was delicious. I am not going to be upset about him fighting naked either. And then QS brings him his coat…? omg. Chef’s kiss.

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