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  1. #3631

  2. #3632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    So, having probably the 2nd most powerful character in all of DC as their "antagonist" is the idea? Er, how about slicing that down several notches to Darkseid or Trigon? That's a more fair match.
    both are overused and tired.

    When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.

  3. #3633
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    both are overused and tired.

    When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.
    I don't know if Lucifer qualifies as a villain in the DCU.
    The First of the Fallen, sure, but Lucifer, he's... Well, he's flawed and egotistical and a lot of very not positive things. But not really much of a villain.
    I mean, unless it has changed since before Flashpoint, he was in that kinda place characters like Spectre are. Or like one of the Endless. He's not a hero by any means, but he's not a straight villain. And I think they only turned him more anti-heroic with every new book.

    The Devil and Lucifer are traditionally different characters in the Vertigoverse, and I think it's something that's still true, now that Vertigo is really inside the DCU.
    Also, yes, The First of the Fallen is more like the Devil in the sense that he's the one who rules Hell, as far as I recall. And it's not as powerful as Lucifer is, too. Lucifer is... is really very, very, very powerful. He can shape universes.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 11-30-2021 at 07:14 PM.
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  4. #3634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    both are overused and tired.

    When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.
    Went to hell? When was that?

    In terms of Damian having his antagonist as Lucifer...yeah I can't see it.
    Having the Phantom Stranger against Lucifer is a better match-up.

    Heck a Phantom Stranger and Damian team up would work better, it's just that Lucifer is just on another tier.

    His traditional enemies should always, in my thoughts, should either be the League of Assassins' and its co-groups, not Lucifer.

  5. #3635
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckri View Post
    Went to hell? When was that?

    In terms of Damian having his antagonist as Lucifer...yeah I can't see it.
    Having the Phantom Stranger against Lucifer is a better match-up.

    Heck a Phantom Stranger and Damian team up would work better, it's just that Lucifer is just on another tier.

    His traditional enemies should always, in my thoughts, should either be the League of Assassins' and its co-groups, not Lucifer.
    Yeah. Lucifer is one of those multiversal beings that probably wasn't even bothered by the last few multiversal crises. And Damian going to, and leaving, Hell? Lucifer wouldn't care.

  6. #3636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Yeah. Lucifer is one of those multiversal beings that probably wasn't even bothered by the last few multiversal crises. And Damian going to, and leaving, Hell? Lucifer wouldn't care.
    How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?

  7. #3637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?
    Okay, I'll be honest Batman 666 is cool and all, it was implied he made a deal with the devil.
    And Death Metal opens the multiverse up, but I'll be honest I don't want Damian to end up as Batman 666.

    Two versions mate and different circumstances that lead to Damian being Batman 666

  8. #3638
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?
    There are lesser beings that can do that. Its just that Lucifer, along with his brother Michael Demiurgos, are basically #2 out of all DC creation. With the Presence being #2. Plus, Lucifer spent a good while trying to break his own destiny.

    Literally just about any other being in the expanded DC omniverse is on a lower tier. Barring maybe Death of the Endless herself, with the other Endless only slightly lower.

    So Damian could make a deal with a run of the mill devil and get immortality (though I imagine Constantine would oppose that). It would take Damian confronting Lucifer, personally, and doing something to really piss him off without being wiped out on the spot. The al'Ghuls simply are not a factor to Lucifer.

  9. #3639
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckri View Post
    Went to hell? When was that?.
    Robin Son of Batman earlier issue iirc


    Also mentioned briefly in Teen Titans (in fact he became their tour guide in Hell)


  10. #3640
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    There are lesser beings that can do that. Its just that Lucifer, along with his brother Michael Demiurgos, are basically #2 out of all DC creation. With the Presence being #2. Plus, Lucifer spent a good while trying to break his own destiny.

    Literally just about any other being in the expanded DC omniverse is on a lower tier. Barring maybe Death of the Endless herself, with the other Endless only slightly lower.

    So Damian could make a deal with a run of the mill devil and get immortality (though I imagine Constantine would oppose that). It would take Damian confronting Lucifer, personally, and doing something to really piss him off without being wiped out on the spot. The al'Ghuls simply are not a factor to Lucifer.
    Well, the Devil and Lucifer are two different guys in the DC universe, traditionally. You can play Damian with a Hell theme without mixing Lucifer in. I mean, look at Constantine, or Raven, or Jason Blood. Plenty of them dealing with demons and devil beings. Just use the Devil, not old blondy Lucy.

    Besides, Lucifer isn't exactly evil. He's more like... a chaotic neutral jerk. He only cares about himself, those few he think dear to him, and his own things. And free will. He's the angel who deals with that stuff, after all.
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  11. #3641
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Apparently for only 1 issue. Robin 11

    Or I understood that in a previous tweet

    Maybe Roger Cruz is not available that month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    The "Immortal ABS" is a clickbait Well, great to know that Al Ghul family still threw mooks to be uselessly killed as their ritual of greeting each other
    Or maybe Talia&Mother soul had been sending assassins against Ras during some time(making him train with them) and this was Talia last attempt.
    Last edited by adrikito; 12-01-2021 at 01:34 AM.

  12. #3642
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?
    That was implied to be via Hush [the anti christ] but you do make a good point.

    His ancestors on both sides made a deal with the devil. Ra's and Thomas [Simon Hurt, Black glove]. In Batman RIP and Batman and Robin we saw that his Wayne ancestors were devil worshippers [Barbatos]

    We also saw this Way ties to 'the Devil' in The Dark Nights Metal tie that featured Damian and Barbatos.
    I can see Barbatos coming for Damian just like the anti Christ came for him.

    A lot of Damian stories has featured him going up against 'the devil', having connections to the devil and the devil having beef with him.

    According to King's Batman Damian already owes the Devil for giving him the power to defeat Gotham Girl.

    The devil ALREADY is his personal antagonist. In comics and in movies.

    I'm not sure Lucifer can be connected to Damian or has reason to be concerned with him but other devils can and are.
    Last edited by dietrich; 12-01-2021 at 12:33 AM.

  13. #3643
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    In my opinion, if Damian were to make a deal with the devil.
    Basing on that alternate universe where Damian is a girl, I want Damian to make a deal with Klarion.

  14. #3644
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckri View Post
    Okay, I'll be honest Batman 666 is cool and all, it was implied he made a deal with the devil.
    And Death Metal opens the multiverse up, but I'll be honest I don't want Damian to end up as Batman 666.

    Two versions mate and different circumstances that lead to Damian being Batman 666
    I like Batman 666. Ideally I want Damian to end up being a vet who lives happily ever after but batman 666 is future I also like.

  15. #3645
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckri View Post
    In my opinion, if Damian were to make a deal with the devil.
    Basing on that alternate universe where Damian is a girl, I want Damian to make a deal with Klarion.
    Klarion is just a witch boy not the devil. In our current universe Damian got the spell with which he made the deal with the devil [Rebirth batman] from Klarion

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