Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

[marhawkman]

Deathstroke does better against JL than against Titans.

This is true actually.... which is weird....

[Rebeca Armus]

The image isn't showing up because that page isn't meant to be publicly viewable yet.

gossip told in half... =_=

[Shen]

I just re-read the Teen Titans Special #1 and I'm annoyed all over again at DC.

Reading the first issue lets you know exactly where this trinity stands, and as much he goes full homicidal later on, I perfectly understand why Damian feels the way he does and can't help but to agree with him. Heck, I actually like the idea of the prison right now (not the mindwipes though, that's just asking for trouble).

This story had soo much potential - but all I remember from it is a bungled mess of plotlines and a central character's descent into pseudo-villainy while everyone else just stood by unknowingly (minus Emiko - she stalled Damian a little in that regard when she killed Slade, but still).

I know everything was rushed, but it could've been soo much better if they gave the story some time to breath. No matter how I look at it, it just seems like an entire run dedicated to breaking down Damian, with a few sprinkles of side-character development and storylines as well.

Some things just don't make sense at all.

[CPSparkles]

I just re-read the Teen Titans Special #1 and I'm annoyed all over again at DC.

This story had soo much potential - but all I remember from it is a bungled mess of plotlines and a central character's descent into pseudo-villainy while everyone else just stood by unknowingly (minus Emiko - she stalled Damian a little in that regard when she killed Slade, but still).

I know everything was rushed, but it could've been soo much better if they gave the story some time to breath. No matter how I look at it, it just seems like an entire run dedicated to breaking down Damian , with a few sprinkles of side-character development and storylines as well.

Some things just don't make sense at all.

That was exactly what Glass was told to do when he got the title. In his words, "the decision had been made that Damian should lose the Robin mantle. He was directed to write Damian's fall, leading to him losing Robin.

[Shen]

That was exactly what Glass was told to do when he got the title. In his words, "the decision had been made that Damian should lose the Robin mantle. He was directed to write Damian's fall, leading to him losing Robin.

That's why I'm not angry with him, a little annoyed but nothing like I was before. I (like many others) directed my anger at him each month as Damian started falling further and further - until I re-evaluated things and my perspective changed.

Wasn't it Glass that said he believed Damian would become the best Batman?

IMG_20210611_070037.jpg

Damian is soo extra XD

[CPSparkles]

That's why I'm not angry with him, a little annoyed but nothing like I was before. I (like many others) directed my anger at him each month as Damian started falling further and further - until I re-evaluated things and my perspective changed.

Wasn't it Glass that said he believed Damian would become the best Batman?

IMG_20210611_070037.jpg

Damian is soo extra XD

I wasn't aware Glass said that. Don't think I've heard any writers views on how Damian as Batman would fare. The closest is Snyder saying that Damian is Batman perfected [which was a back handed dig since he followed it up, " He's Batman without the empathy"]

Glass was only doing his job. I agree but I doubt DC asked him to embrace Damian's middle Eastern roots and then strap bombs to him.

I doubt DC had him have Alfred say that Damian was acting like Ra's not a Wayne by having an illegal jail. A ridiculous lie since that is very much Bruce Wayne's playbook not Ra's.

So I have issues with Glass. He also did a poor job of letting us know Damian's motivations and he dropped a bunch of plot threads. What was the point of Jason?

What was in the box?
What was the extent of Jason's involvement?
Don't get me started on the whole suddenly everything is on Damian and the team was forced

[Blue22]

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place. It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."

Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the **** out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.

So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.

[Shen]

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place. It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."

Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the **** out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.

So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.

Noted, and I will comply in doing that. (I know it shouldn't be funny - but when Harley Quinn called Wallace 'Politically Correct Flash' in the Special, I couldn't help laughing. Especially after the recent Superman controversy.)

I also really liked his original motivation for this crusade. He himself says he might view things differently after watching a World die in No Justice, and Black Mask was just the Catalyst.

As I said, I'm re-reading it and so far it's better than I'd remembered. I'm at the point where they're after Lady Vic, and Damian's trying to teach Crush how to be a team player (seriously, DAMIAN of all people) and it's actually good character growth.

Emiko is more annoying than I remember her being and I actually like Djinn at this point. She's the narrator and her story is actually pretty cool. Roundhouse is pretty intelligent, and is slightly endearing once you get past his need for attention. I think if they made him and Damian bond a little more, his betrayal wouldve hit a little harder.

Crush always reminded me of Superboy from the Young Justice Animated series, and I think she's got a lot of potential. I'm just trying to find the starting point for where it all went Belly-up. It's kinda starting now with Emiko going off on Djinn during the mission because Damian just jumped on that grenade a little while ago.

[Blue22]

Crush always reminded me of Superboy from the Young Justice Animated series, and I think she's got a lot of potential. I'm just trying to find the starting point for where it all went Belly-up. It's kinda starting now with Emiko going off on Djinn during the mission because Damian just jumped on that grenade a little while ago.

Red Hood is where things start to get stupid and Deathstroke is where the run straight up becomes unsalvageable. That's when they double down on the Damian hate and just...never stop.

[Shen]

Red Hood is where things start to get stupid and Deathstroke is where the run straight up becomes unsalvageable. That's when they double down on the Damian hate and just...never stop.

The issue where they're trapped underground is where Damian starts acting weirder than usual. This is about 2 issues after he first used Djinn's ring. He straight-up almost pulls a Finn(Reeeeeeyyyyyyy!!!!!) looking for her XD

Aaand now I remember why I dislike Crush. Damian and Djinn are having their spat and she's getting jealous on the sidelines. Then she manhandles the kid the first chance she gets.

I understand that tensions are high after everything is revealed but she just lashes out, because at this point - she's just a very angry chick who uses this chance to hurt the guy stealing her girl.

Props to Wallace for kicking her ass around a little bit. This team's chemistry just went boom.

RCO016_1568793618.jpg

And Djinn just shed that innocent princess act quite quickly when her ring got stolen. Yes, yes. Ring is very important - end of worlds type important. Not an excuse for being such a meanie (unless, these are her True Colors). Quite the hypocrite, going off on both Crush and then Damian. This is where my dislike of her began.

You're right, Red Hood is where it started to nosedive.
I'm stopping at the point Roundhouse has them captured and tells em why he stole the ring.
I can't read this any further - the death of Roundhouses sister isn't supposed to be blamed on one person but it's just added to the growing pile of Damian's mistakes.
Billy convinced his sister to take the shortcut and Damian decided to blow up Scarecrow's building - but guess who the average reader would blame when reading this in context after all the crap he's done. And then he has the gall to tell Billy he'll forgive him.

I get that they wanted to take Robin away from him, but you've just got to admire how well writers shed light on all Damian's wrongdoings while hiding everyone else's in the background. Solid work. 10/10.

Even Lady Shiva couldn't have pulled off an Assassination like this.

[dietrich]

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place. It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."

Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the **** out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.

So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.

Sadly we'll never know for certain why DC changed the reason behind Damian's heel turn but looking back and taking into account everything that was going on in other titles, DC, WB etc. It feels like some [new powerplayers] at DC made a decision re Robin which was later shutdown.

Blaming it on Alfred was Salvage and abate. Damian wasn't thinking clearly when he decided to di thing's his way. Hence why they changed it to trauma induced, thus giving him an out. An explanation for his less than heroic choices while still allowing him to be retain a hero mantle.

It also sidesteps the need to write his redemption

They rushed into damage control which is evident in titles like Nightwing where it's obvious Damian wasn't part of the story but was squeezed in.

The fact that Tim's return to Robin was off screen [we didn't get the conversation between him and Bruce. Something that should have been shown]

The fact that no one knew what Tim's code name was indicates that the writers themselves didn't know.

I know some speculate that Damian quitting Robin was due to 5G plans but I don't think that's true since Glass would have said so. That explanation surely would have minimised the backlash so the fact that he didn't mention it leads me to believe that this wasn't the reason.

I also liked the OG reason since it was evolution for Damian's character. His 1st attempt at fighting crime his own way. Not Bruce 's or Dick's. Not trying to fix the world the Al Ghul way.

I liked a lot about the run. Damian reaching out to Jason showed maturity. He ditched his childish mindset that Jason was lesser / a failure because of his death.

He forgave RH

He handled Crush well
He took feedback from Percy's run and appointed Emi as his 2nd in command to handle the people part of the team since he sucks at interpersonal relationships.

He went back to hell to save Djinn showing just how far he'd go for a team mate. Plus it was a badass boss move.

There was a lot to like about that run and contrary to what some say it developed Damian's character further. People sometimes forget that growth isn't a straight line. People sometimes falter, lapse, err or deviate. Sometimes it's backwards when mistakes are made so I don't mind Damian stumbling or falling flat on his face. Heck I don't even mind so much if he still struggles with old habits. Change isn't easy and Damian shouldn't be/isn't perfect.

I also really liked that he put together a completely diverse team.

[Fergus]

Damian is in Batman vs. Bigby! A Wolf in Gotham, A fables 6 issues Black Label Series out in September by Willingham, Brian Level, Jay Leisten, and Lee Loughridge.

[Blue22]

Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?

[Rebeca Armus]

For me the worst relationship of Slade is with Bruce, Slade live in a way that is everything Bruce is against, but they have this "I respect you, man" relationship, errrrgghh no, disgusting >< He tried to kill 2 of Bruce's sons! 1 should be enough!

[garazza]

Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?

Not canon.