Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

[Aahz]

I think the question is can character really change his codename without losing relevancy these days?

Only if the change really feels like a step up, and that kind of requires a good story and a solid plan what to do with the character after wards.

When they did it with Dick, New Teen Titans was pretty hot book at the time and I think they sold it well that this was Dick growing out of the Robin role.

In case of Jason I don't think you can really count it as a change. I mean I think most of his current fans are fans because of Under the Red Hood and not because of his run as Robin.

In case of Tim going from Robin to Red Robin, didn't real felt much of a step up (same with Cassandra Cain Black Bat) and the change to Drake was just poorly handled (and the costume was terrible).


But I think in the end the main problem for Tim was that Flashpoint came to fast after the switch, that the character lost to much of history in flashpoint, and that he didn't really had a good series since than.

[Aahz]

They did more than enough to move Tim on. They invested a lot in a character even when his sales no longer justified such investments

The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).

[Rac7d*]

The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).

Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52

[Darkspellmaster]

@ darkspellmaster do you know how long the RR solo ran for? WTf do you mean Tim wasn't given enough time to become RR? He was. More than enough Time was given.

Post 52, pre new 52 he was fine, post 52 he kept being shifted all over the place from Lodbell to whom ever too the title up after. Pre he was fine, and it made sense post, we had the screw up with the 5 years, and the same for Damian because we lost all the traction with Dick, since how did that even work in the time line.

Tim was given more time than Jason and Dick before so put it back in the can.

We discuss canon not fanon here.

Comics sure, pre 52 sure other media, no. Even his BTAS self is Jason light. Tim as Tim has only had the YJ show and thats again Dicks thing, so to non comic readers Tim hasn't been given a fair shake. Damian has what 4 movies under his belt?

FYI

Only one person here said that jason fans weren't pissed off so don't do that 'as some people here have said business
one person said it and that one person wasn't reading comics back in the 80's when Jason was killed so they have no idea what it was like.

Didn't say Jason fans weren't ticked, but it was a different sort as there was space between Jason being Dead and Tim coming in. There wasn't breathing room for Tim to Damian in the same way.

[QUOTE Morrison made provisions for Tim as did DC. Morrison gave him a key role in his run and he got a solo that had more than 20 issues. A decent amount of fans loved what was done with Tim in RR and to this day still lament that DC didn't keep up with the RR solo.[/QUOTE]

That's what I'm getting at here though. All pre 52 stuff. Post, he's become a shell, hell you have people arguing that he and Jason should be retired to shrink the bat family. Damian right now has the notice, at least until someone comes up with a new Robin as he gets older. When he hits Jon's new age I'm pretty sure we might get a new Robin.

They did more than enough to move Tim on. They invested a lot in a character even when his sales no longer justified such investments

Again Pre 52 sure, post, not as much and not in other media.

[Daedalus]

Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52

In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.

[Darkspellmaster]

In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.

Agreed.

Part of the issue isn't Tim fans wanting him to stay on as Robin, its that the natural growth afforded to say Walley and Dick has not been give to the younger gen characters. Example from Marvel, The Young Avengers recently had Teddy and Billy get married. Where as DC force aged Bart and then killed him as the Flash. The issue is that Tim fans, and I'm sure Damian fans feel this too, want the character to grow. No one would like Damian stuck forever at 14 and not allowed to grow naturally as a character or get his own code name. Same is for Tim, only he gets stuck because writers can't seem to be allowed to get him an advance.

I'm curious whats going to happen should a future bat writer has a different character become robin?

[Konja7]

I thought that this character was only in Future State as Wonder Woman..

Yes. You are right. I visited DC wiki and is considered a Wondergirl in the present.. I feel bad for Cassie.

Yara isn't only considered Wonder Girl in the present. She currently has a solo (which Cassie never has).

These days with the Tim BI thing some Tim fans(in reddit) are pointing out DAMIAN as a better option("with more sense") to be Homo/Bi than their Tim. One of them after apologize for talk like that even said that Dick Grayson coming out would be cool(after mention Damian of course). Yeah. Every option is Cool as long as is not your character.

That's true. They could try to justify that another character makes "more sense", but they just don't want their favorite character to be gay or bi.

[Kid Devil]

Looking back at it I'm surprised Cassie never got her own solo series. Robin and Superboy each had one that went for 100 issues or more while all she really got was to be leader of the Teen Titans for a bit and I didn't find her too convincing in that position. She went on about how important it was for was for her but as soon as Red Robin came back she submitted to him like she had no spine.

[Darkspellmaster]

Cassie has a very short one i thought but it got shelved sadly because of the reboot that was coming.

[Kid Devil]

I remember her getting a one shot in 2011. If that was going to be the start of an ongoing series that would have been awesome.

[Aahz]

Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52

Because that book wasn't any good, and most of the characters had a lot of the pre flashpoint history and personality removes/changed, which turned fans of the pre crisis series away.

Dick had the "advantage" that his Nightwing Setting had been allready nuked 5 year before flashpoint, and that his incarnation of Titans didn't had a good series since the late 90s. He the two year Batman run he had just before Flashpoint stayed anyway in continuity. Which made it less jarring when he lost most of his pre flashpoint history.

Jason had anyway not much to lose and Damian survived Flashpoint pretty much unchanged.

[CPSparkles]

The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).

RR was pre flash point
Do you know how many years ago that was?
Dietrich is totally right. DC has given Tim more chances than the rese. New 52 Tt, Olympic gymnast Tim, Tim as batman beyond, Tim and co as the face of Wonder comics Bendis YJ, All failed and yet look who os back being carried by the Robin identity. Rim.

These days Robin carries Tim and Tim adds nothing to Robin.

[CPSparkles]

Because that book wasn't any good, and most of the characters had a lot of the pre flashpoint history and personality removes/changed, which turned fans of the pre crisis series away.

Dick had the "advantage" that his Nightwing Setting had been allready nuked 5 year before flashpoint, and that his incarnation of Titans didn't had a good series since the late 90s. He the two year Batman run he had just before Flashpoint stayed anyway in continuity. Which made it less jarring when he lost most of his pre flashpoint history.

Jason had anyway not much to lose and Damian survived Flashpoint pretty much unchanged.

You don't know why the sales were how they were. Give me objective proof?

[CPSparkles]

In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.

What excuses did his Batman beyond and YJ book have then? Stop blaming the books.

[CPSparkles]

Post 52, pre new 52 he was fine, post 52 he kept being shifted all over the place from Lodbell to whom ever too the title up after. Pre he was fine, and it made sense post, we had the screw up with the 5 years, and the same for Damian because we lost all the traction with Dick, since how did that even work in the time line.



Comics sure, pre 52 sure other media, no. Even his BTAS self is Jason light. Tim as Tim has only had the YJ show and thats again Dicks thing, so to non comic readers Tim hasn't been given a fair shake. Damian has what 4 movies under his belt?



Didn't say Jason fans weren't ticked, but it was a different sort as there was space between Jason being Dead and Tim coming in. There wasn't breathing room for Tim to Damian in the same way.

[QUOTE Morrison made provisions for Tim as did DC. Morrison gave him a key role in his run and he got a solo that had more than 20 issues. A decent amount of fans loved what was done with Tim in RR and to this day still lament that DC didn't keep up with the RR solo.

[/QUOTE]

That's bs.

Outside media Tim had
2 Arkham Games
multiple lego Games
The Unlimited internet series
The unlimited movie series
BTAS which is always on repeat
The lego movies
2 seasons of YJ

[not counting his d2v movies]

Damian had
Injustice
Son of Batman
BVR
2 Tt movies and JL AW
the unlimited movies
acouple of lego movies
Batman/Turtles movie

Post 52 Damian was exiled from the bat books and Duke was the new sidekick. Post 52 Tim had TT, BB, BRE, Tec, another TT, YJ.

That is not enough? That is more than 90% of the bat family got. Goodness sake.

Tim hasn't been neglected. Not even close. How you can claim that a character that had ALL I listed above was neglected is beyond me.

Comics and outside media Tim has been very very very well represented.

People are arguing that Tim be retired not many are arguing that jason be retired since he has a niche. Tim is just the surplus Robin sadly.

Every writer since Morrison has introduced new character and new sidekicks. Damian has only been saved because he is popular. The 2nd he stops being popular then he'll get replaced [I mean some behind the scenes have been trying to replace him despite his popularity with less popular characters].