Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

[adrikito]

and "Ian". Not "Damian", because he "didn't like the name", but "Ian". Talk about going the extra mile to white-wash a character.

Seriously? It was for that??

[Jackalope89]

Seriously? It was for that??

Yep. It was one of the first issues where it was mentioned, but yeah.

[Restingvoice]

If the Al Ghul's are from Turkey according to Damian's Truth and Justice story, then they aren't Arabs because the Turks are a different ethnic group from central Asia. Central Asians have lighter skin compared to South Asians. Damian having fair skin is accurate.

The Turkish interpretation was based on a misread of Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul where Talia described Ra's as having "led a Byzantine life" that resulted in his Wikipedia article assigned him as Ottoman Turkish living in Byzantine Empire era.

That said, since it is written in a story now, even if it's semi out of continuity, if you want to count Truth and Justice as canon...

Well since we're talking about some history.

The gods in that issue were Anatolian, specifically Hitties. So if we're going by the theory that the Al Ghuls originate from the Anatolia. Here's my take.

It could be the distance past the Al Ghuls was different in antiquity and classical period before the Arabian conquest in the region, that far into the past they would have seen the Persian, Macedonian, Roman, expansion in the region.

Where the original Al Ghuls probably took up the Al Ghul to adopt to the customs of that time, and intermarrying with the Arabs at the given time period. Though if the Al Ghuls were in Anatolia it was in the midst of the Ottoman empire and various other kingdoms. And where Ra's gets into the picture being born in 1430 in the Arabian region, and was described as a nomadic person.

So likely that the Al Ghuls were originally from Anatolia, intermarried with Arabs, and Ra's somewhere was born in the Arabian region who became a nomad and travelled to east via Silk Road.

That's my take.

...It's possible that the nomad tribe on his mother's side originated from Anatolia, since his mother's origin was never revealed, only his father, who is Chinese)

With all due respect to everyone but how can they decide Damian skin color when they are yet to decide is Talia white or a POC.

She's always Chinese Arab plus whatever Ra's is, and they're never white. So if DC can't decide, then we help them by not buying the white one and keep rejecting any white washing.

[Daedalus]

Well since we're talking about some history.

The gods in that issue were Anatolian, specifically Hitties. So if we're going by the theory that the Al Ghuls originate from the Anatolia. Here's my take.

It could be the distance past the Al Ghuls was different in antiquity and classical period before the Arabian conquest in the region, that far into the past they would have seen the Persian, Macedonian, Roman, expansion in the region.

Where the original Al Ghuls probably took up the Al Ghul to adopt to the customs of that time, and intermarrying with the Arabs at the given time period. Though if the Al Ghuls were in Anatolia it was in the midst of the Ottoman empire and various other kingdoms. And where Ra's gets into the picture being born in 1430 in the Arabian region, and was described as a nomadic person.

So likely that the Al Ghuls were originally from Anatolia, intermarried with Arabs, and Ra's somewhere was born in the Arabian region who became a nomad and travelled to east via Silk Road.

That's my take.

This could work, and I like this take. I suppose "Ra's al Ghul", which we all know to be Arabic for Head of the Demon, is a self-styled title or nome de guerre, and Ra's the man was born under a different name, which he has long stopped using.

[HsssH]

Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.

[Fergus]

Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.

Truth and Justice isn't canon. The writer said that he has never been able to explore his culture and heritage in his few years writing comics. This gave him a chance to do so and then he thanks the fans for buying the book.


The idea was to showcase young writers of colour. A platform for young up and coming storytellers to reveal their take on Popular characters.

Subsequent installments of Truth & Justice will showcase the heart and spirit of the wide-ranging characters featured across DC’s Multiverse. With an endless array of characters to choose from—heroes, villains, aliens, animals—you name it, we have it!

So that was Anissa's [the writer] take on Damian not Dc's official take

[Veni]

Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.

The Arabs didn't invade the Byzantine Empire. So no. If he lived in Anatolia, the writers at DC would have a variety of options to choose from such as Hittite, Greek, Macedonian, Armenian, Turkish, etc. The Ottoman Empire was multiethnic, yes, but ethnic and religious minorities were treated as second-class citizens. That's why the word Ottoman is used for people of Turkish descent up to the year 1922. After 1922, The Republic of Turkey was born and became an ethnostate.

[Perfidiously]

You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.

[Vakanai]

You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.

I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?

[Rac7d*]

You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.

How old is ra’s exactly?

[Eckri]

I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?

How old is ra’s exactly?

Most sources say he was born 1430 or around that period.
So mostly 500 ish years old, so he's not that old compared to other DC humanoids. E.G. Vandal Savage.

Since he was a nomad, who knows what his origins entail. I mean, he was certainly young enough to see the Fall of Constantinople at 1453, and surely old then to have join the Spanish Conquistador when colonization occurs.

At what period when he discovered the Lazarus pit, that's something left in mystery. Or I don't know.

[Restingvoice]

I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?

if they did they made it up.

The origin of The Pit by Ra's creators was that he found it while meditating in his birthplace home in North Africa trying to find a way to save the Sultan's son.

[Vakanai]

if they did they made it up.

The origin of The Pit by Ra's creators was that he found it while meditating in his birthplace home in North Africa trying to find a way to save the Sultan's son.

Maybe he said he had to defend it from some conquistadors then? I'm trying to remember stuff from 25+ years ago though so probably just misremembering.

[Daedalus]

Truth and Justice isn't canon. The writer said that he has never been able to explore his culture and heritage in his few years writing comics. This gave him a chance to do so and then he thanks the fans for buying the book.


The idea was to showcase young writers of colour. A platform for young up and coming storytellers to reveal their take on Popular characters.

Subsequent installments of Truth & Justice will showcase the heart and spirit of the wide-ranging characters featured across DC’s Multiverse. With an endless array of characters to choose from—heroes, villains, aliens, animals—you name it, we have it!

So that was Anissa's [the writer] take on Damian not Dc's official take

This is helpful and makes things less convoluted. I think it's best that Ra's be Arab, since his name is Arabic. It's bad enough that DC can't settle on how to pronounce his name, even though it's a perfectly normal word in a real language.

Most sources say he was born 1430 or around that period.
So mostly 500 ish years old, so he's not that old compared to other DC humanoids. E.G. Vandal Savage.

Since he was a nomad, who knows what his origins entail. I mean, he was certainly young enough to see the Fall of Constantinople at 1453, and surely old then to have join the Spanish Conquistador when colonization occurs.

At what period when he discovered the Lazarus pit, that's something left in mystery. Or I don't know.

Now that you put it like that, I kind of really want a "Ra's al Ghul witnesses/influences real historical events" comic. I’d love to see a young Ra’s at the Fall of Constantinople.

[Eckri]

Now that you put it like that, I kind of really want a "Ra's al Ghul witnesses/influences real historical events" comic. I’d love to see a young Ra’s at the Fall of Constantinople.

Oh that's nice, willing to bet that he would be Janissary, it would also add to the fact the Janissary were educated and trained. Wasn't he a slave at one point? yeah that would fit.

Damian's reaction to it would be nice, Grand pa telling his Grand son his days while he was young.

Ra's: So I and my Janissary companions forwarded to Constantinople. The last of Romans died bravely, Constantine the 11th, I saw it with my own eyes, and fought him.

Damian: Mother never mentioned this, you never mentioned this besides talking on how long you lived. What happened next?

Ra's: Afterwards, I had enough of being the Sultan's bodyguard, and escaped to the Italy to see the Renaissance.

Damian: The part you found the Lazarus pit?

Ra's: We'll get there, grand son.

It's bizarre that Ra's al Ghul of all people in the Robin series gave us a wholesome Grand-son to Grand-father moments, compared to Thomas Wayne.