Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

[Astralabius]

I can't even answer a simple question like "did Damian kill Brother Blood?" because we never saw it happen, we only had Damian admitting that he did it and then it was never brought up again.
Now Damian is magically back to not wanting to kill, but you can bet your ass the question "should Damian kill or not?" is going to come up in a tournament where you can only win by killing your opponement.

[Shen]

I can't even answer a simple question like "did Damian kill Brother Blood?" because we never saw it happen, we only had Damian admitting that he did it and then it was never brought up again.
Now Damian is magically back to not wanting to kill, but you can bet your ass the question "should Damian kill or not?" is going to come up in a tournament where you can only win by killing your opponement.

It doesn't even matter if he killed him or not. Remember when Emiko killed Deathstroke mid-way through the series? Had a funeral and for him and everything.

Then dude just comes back at the end of the run like nothing. Brother Blood is a staple of the Titans, so I won't be surprised if his followers or some other plot device revive him.

What's the point of the No-Kill rule if DC will just bring that person back at some point in time? That's why I loved DCeased. Every death had an impact. There was a finality in their death, because you knew they wouldn't be able to return.

Even Alfred, if what most fan theories about Damian's plans are true, probably won't be gone for long. As for the island, I'm pretty sure nobody can really die on it. Either they'd toss dead fighters in a Lazarus Pit, or the whole Island itself is magical. (Either way, Flatline can become really OP with the way her abilities work). And they probably are only allowed to be revived a certain amount of times, then it's real death.

[Astralabius]

It doesn't even matter if he killed him or not. Remember when Emiko killed Deathstroke mid-way through the series? Had a funeral and for him and everything.

Then dude just comes back at the end of the run like nothing. Brother Blood is a staple of the Titans, so I won't be surprised if his followers or some other plot device revive him.

What's the point of the No-Kill rule if DC will just bring that person back at some point in time? That's why I loved DCeased. Every death had an impact. There was a finality in their death, because you knew they wouldn't be able to return.

Even Alfred, if what most fan theories about Damian's plans are true, probably won't be gone for long. As for the island, I'm pretty sure nobody can really die on it. Either they'd toss dead fighters in a Lazarus Pit, or the whole Island itself is magical. (Either way, Flatline can become really OP with the way her abilities work). And they probably are only allowed to be revived a certain amount of times, then it's real death.

For me it's not really about if Brother Blood stays dead or not, it's just that I don't see a reason to still care if Damian has to choose between killing and not killing again, since they very carelessly had him cross the line in Teen Titans and now I'm not even sure if it happened or not.
But for character developement to matter I kinda need to know stuff like that.
Is Damian working hard to not kill after he committed a murder in Teen Titans? Or is this written under the assumption that Damian didn't kill anyone since he killed Otto Netz to save Bruce?

[Shen]

For me it's not really about if Brother Blood stays dead or not, it's just that I don't see a reason to still care if Damian has to choose between killing and not killing again, since they very carelessly had him cross the line in Teen Titans and now I'm not even sure if it happened or not.
But for character developement to matter I kinda need to know stuff like that.
Is Damian working hard to not kill after he committed a murder in Teen Titans? Or is this written under the assumption that Damian didn't kill anyone since he killed Otto Netz to save Bruce?

God, if they ignore the NoBody storyline and the Year of Atonement, I'll be really annoyed. Some of his best moments came from his relationship with Maya.

Considering the direction they want him to go in, I'd say he'd eventually decide not to kill after struggling with his inner demons (literally, when Ra's appears).

There's no way fans would accept a watered-down version of everything that's happened to him, and I'm sure Williamson would know that. So he should portray him as trying his best to reign-in his killer instincts - which would be a challenge on that Island.

[Astralabius]

God, if they ignore the NoBody storyline and the Year of Atonement, I'll be really annoyed. Some of his best moments came from his relationship with Maya.

Considering the direction they want him to go in, I'd say he'd eventually decide not to kill after struggling with his inner demons (literally, when Ra's appears).

There's no way fans would accept a watered-down version of everything that's happened to him, and I'm sure Williamson would know that. So he should portray him as trying his best to reign-in his killer instincts - which would be a challenge on that Island.

Hm? I didn't suggest DC is trying to ignore that. Otto Netz happened after Nobody.
It's the recent killing of Brother Blood that DC doesn't want to bring up again.

Damian already seems to have decided on not killing after Teen Titans.
He didn't try to kill Hush, he wanted to see him in prison.
He didn't kill the league of lazarus henchman in Demon or Detective when Talia asked him to do it.
The referee in his fight against King Snake tells him he would have payed Damian more money if he killed King Snake, something Damian only comments on with a "TT"
My problem is that if we assume that Damian did kill Brother Blood then we didn't get to see Damian come to the conclusion that he made a mistake and shouldn't kill from then on.
There was no character arc explaining this change, he just went back to not killing.
Which, at least for me, means there aren't a lot of stakes here. If Damian can just switch between killing and not killing without needing a good explanation for either decision, then why should I still care?

[Shen]

Hm? I didn't suggest DC is trying to ignore that. Otto Netz happened after Nobody.
It's the recent killing of Brother Blood that DC doesn't want to bring up again.

Damian already seems to have decided on not killing after Teen Titans.
He didn't try to kill Hush, he wanted to see him in prison.
He didn't kill the league of lazarus henchman in Demon or Detective when Talia asked him to do it.
The referee in his fight against King Snake tells him he would have payed Damian more money if he killed King Snake, something Damian only comments on with a "TT"
My problem is that if we assume that Damian did kill Brother Blood then we didn't get to see Damian come to the conclusion that he made a mistake and shouldn't kill from then on.
There was no character arc explaining this change, he just went back to not killing.
Which, at least for me, means there aren't a lot of stakes here. If Damian can just switch between killing and not killing without needing a good explanation for either decision, then why should I still care?

Yeah I get ya. I'm just saying they probably wanna retconn what's happened to him, so I hope they don't overwrite those storylines just coz his only connection to it isn't around for him. I don't want a repeat of Colin.

As it is, he's already been shown not killing when he's had the chance - as you said. It is disappointing that we didn't get to see him make that choice on paper, but it is implied that he has decided to stop killing.

Maybe when he's tested on the Island, we'll at least get some flashbacks or something. That is, if he's even killed Brother Blood, and his thoughts afterwards.

I've always thought a great way to explain it would be Heretic framing him for the murder - I mean he's a clone of the kid so it's plausible.
There were many unanswered questions, but the issue where Jon showed up to talk to him - Damian was emphasizing the use of fear in his monologue. Maybe him taking responsibility for the murder is his way of instilling fear in criminals - that he's not messing around.

Besides, it wouldn't be too surprising to anyone who knew him. Sad, but not something OOC for someone who's literally been through hell and back. He knew that.

Anyway, that was the theory I came up with, when I saw the issue.

[Blue22]

I'm gonna have to agree with Astralabius here. I do love that Damian is back to not killing. But considering his decision to start killing again is the final straw that led to his falling out with the Titans and breaking away from the Batfamily...it just feels like a waste for him to just change his mind off-panel like that.

One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! **** YOU BATMAN! **** ROBIN!", then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.

[the1&onlyE.]

Jorge Corona, the artist of Robin #4, shared a panel.

[Astralabius]

I'm gonna have to agree with Astralabius here. I do love that Damian is back to not killing. But considering his decision to start killing again is the final straw that led to his falling out with the Titans and breaking away from the Batfamily...it just feels like a waste for him to just change his mind off-panel like that.

One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! **** YOU BATMAN! **** ROBIN!", then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.

In a similar vein, I'm happy that Bruce and the family are looking for Damian now, but...why?

Bruce didn't miss Damian when he first left him after No Justice.
Bruce did pretty much nothing about his problems with Damian until the second Teen Titans annual.
He let Damian walk away despite the fact that the kid had just killed someone, attempted to kill two more people and injured Emiko. He seemed more concerned about moving out of Wayne Manor, mourning Alfred and the rise of the anti vigilante movement.
Bruce simply waited for Damian to come home on his own and ask for his job back for some reason. He also blamed almost everything that went wrong on Damian's personality and age.
At the end of the arc he let Damian disappear again and went back to moving out of Wayne manor.

And now he has suddenly come to the conclusion that Damian shouldn't have to take care of himself, admits that he made many mistakes with his son and the whole family is looking for the kid.
I appreciate this developement, but I can't explain it.
Damian has been missing for awhile now, so what prompted this?

[Astralabius]

Jorge Corona, the artist of Robin #4, shared a panel.

Looks nice!

[Blue22]

In a similar vein, I'm happy that Bruce and the family are looking for Damian now, but...why?

Bruce didn't miss Damian when he first left him after No Justice.
Bruce did pretty much nothing about his problems with Damian until the second Teen Titans annual.
He let Damian walk away despite the fact that the kid had just killed someone, attempted to kill two more people and injured Emiko. He seemed more concerned about moving out of Wayne Manor, mourning Alfred and the rise of the anti vigilante movement.
Bruce simply waited for Damian to come home on his own and ask for his job back for some reason. He also blamed almost everything that went wrong on Damian's personality and age.
At the end of the arc he let Damian disappear again and went back to moving out of Wayne manor.

And now he has suddenly come to the conclusion that Damian shouldn't have to take care of himself, admits that he made many mistakes with his son and the whole family is looking for the kid.
I appreciate this developement, but I can't explain it.
Damian has been missing for awhile now, so what prompted this?

You forgot the part where he never once consoled him over having to watch Alfred die. All because he followed Bruce's exact orders. He just let Damian go on believing the whole thing was his fault. I know there are people who hated seeing the whole family go off on Bruce (again) in the memorial book. But damn that was cathartic after what he did. Or rather...what he didn't do.

[Rac7d*]

Why are you guys asking thease questions?
Bruce gets written by dozens of writers
One hated Damian and made him into the angry violent rebellious teen with a parent who couldn’t be bothered to care
Brother blood will get resurrected when he is needed again so he doesn’t matter anyway

[Shen]

One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! **** YOU BATMAN! **** ROBIN!", then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.

XD I think I woke up my entire house laughing at this.

Yea I agree with you guys, it'll be very disappointing if that isn't addressed at some point. That said, I'm putting my faith in Williamson. He seems to understand the fans and it's still early days.

Besides, if they're following Shounen there's definitely gonna be some flashbacks and reveals that makes the mc more special.

[Shen]

You forgot the part where he never once consoled him over having to watch Alfred die. All because he followed Bruce's exact orders. He just let Damian go on believing the whole thing was his fault. I know there are people who hated seeing the whole family go off on Bruce (again) in the memorial book. But damn that was cathartic after what he did. Or rather...what he didn't do.

Damian: 'runs away feeling like crap'
Barbara: 'Goes off on Bruce like he deserves, emphasizing his responsibility to Damian'
Tim: 'Interrupts this beautiful moment'
Me: "... I understand, but that was a dick move. Carry on."

[Astralabius]

Why are you guys asking thease questions?
Bruce gets written by dozens of writers
One hated Damian and made him into the angry violent rebellious teen with a parent who couldn’t be bothered to care
Brother blood will get resurrected when he is needed again so he doesn’t matter anyway

Because I like knowing what a conflict or story is about and DC made Damian's storyline so messy that it's really hard to tell.

I already explained that my problem doesn't lie with wether Brother Blood comes back or not. You're missing the point.