Iceman: Bobby Drake Appreciation 2021

[CellarDweller]

I loved the Bobby short story in the Pride anthology. It's true it was just a few pages but I thought it was really sweet and moving.

Weirdly, I was always curious about Magneto's stance on homosexuality - given the time period he grew up in, I wouldn't have been surprised if he were to be more... conservative in his views. Delighted to see however he's a true champion for every sort of diversity (as long as you're a mutant, at least )

You need to remember (if his origins haven't been retconned out) that Magneto was a survivor of the concentration camps. During the reign of the Nazis, homosexuals were arrested and placed in the concentration camps. That's where the gay pride symbol the pink triangle comes from.

It's possible that magneto would've met homosexual men in the camps, and seeing that they were given the same treatment as Jewish people, which could've helped shape his views on homosexuality.

[Mercury]

I love this for him.

How it began... (from X-Men #48 [1995]):

[Mercury]

What happened in the interim... (from All-New X-Men #40 [2015]):

[Mercury]

How it ended... (X-Men: Blue #35 [2018]):

[Journey]

What happened in the interim... (from All-New X-Men #40 [2015]):

This is still so f*cked up too me....

[Journey]

Also 2021 is damn near over & this thread only has 5 pages Bobby has been wasted all year on Marauders.

[Mercury]

This is still so f*cked up too me....

Is it, really? I mean, the method is certainly questionable - then again, Jean was 13-15 years old - but the fact that Bobby was, for lack of a better term, released from feeling "crazy" is fucked up to you?

[xhx23x]

Coming out is a deeply personal thing, and it's different for all of us that went through it. I felt Bobby's to be very relatable and very similar to my own experiences with my group of friends when I was growing up, so I think it was well done because of that. BUT for a lot of others I can see how this is hostile and triggering and they can see how this robs Bobby's agency as well.

Narratively, I enjoy that it can be read both ways and that it is messy. Often times, Queer stories can be like any other story and not be perfect. And though people often times bring those panels up, is not like Bobby didn't eventually call Jean out on what she did.



Friends can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. And that's an okay story to tell. And coming out on your own terms or not doesn't take away from the good coming out can have on a person.

[Mercury]

Coming out is a deeply personal thing, and it's different for all of us that went through it. I felt Bobby's to be very relatable and very similar to my own experiences with my group of friends when I was growing up, so I think it was well done because of that. BUT for a lot of others I can see how this is hostile and triggering and they can see how this robs Bobby's agency as well.

Narratively, I enjoy that it can be read both ways and that it is messy. Often times, Queer stories can be like any other story and not be perfect. And though people often times bring those panels up, is not like Bobby didn't eventually call Jean out on what she did.



Friends can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. And that's an okay story to tell. And coming out on your own terms or not doesn't take away from the good coming out can have on a person.

Like you, I relate (deeply) to Bobby's story and how his sexuality was revealed. As I noted in the thread in which this topic came up, both my best friend and mother informed me that they already knew I was gay before I had a chance to come out to them of my own accord. The former simply advised me that I should come out, exclaiming, "It's obvious!," while the latter read a letter I had written to said best friend disclosing my crush on a boy in school. Interestingly enough, I reacted much in the same way Bobby initially did. However, in retrospect, much like he felt, I would not change anything about how I eventually came out. Sure, it was shocking and uncomfortable, but I could not have asked for two better moments with two of the most important people in my life.

[Journey]

Is it, really? I mean, the method is certainly questionable - then again, Jean was 13-15 years old - but the fact that Bobby was, for lack of a better term, released from feeling "crazy" is fucked up to you?

He wasn't "released" he was outed & had to make the best out of bad situation. I find it highly f*cked up even Bobby mentioned he was pissed about it in his solo it was his choice when to come out & Jean took that away it's fucked up even more so as you mentioned because they were so young, X-Men Gold retconned Bobby into being 12 when he joined the X-men this version is probably only like 14 that's a horrible experience for a kid.

[Mercury]

He wasn't "released" he was outed & had to make the best out of bad situation. I find it highly f*cked up even Bobby mentioned he was pissed about it in his solo it was his choice when to come out & Jean took that away it's fucked up even more so as you mentioned because they were so young, X-Men Gold retconned Bobby into being 12 when he joined the X-men this version is probably only like 14 that's a horrible experience for a kid.

That's why I prefaced my use of the word "released" with "for lack of a better term." I totally understand the point you are making; however, I think it is just as f*cked up to completely sh*t on a moment that turned out to be liberating for Bobby and that ended like this:



EDIT: It is also important to note that Jean knew, based on adult Bobby's reality, that teenage Bobby would not come out on his own. Perhaps that was something she could not see herself allowing. Additionally, the scene between Bobby and Jean from X-Men #48 [1995] set a precedent and adds a level of poignancy to this story, making it a true long-standing arc, that I simply cannot ignore or deny.

[xhx23x]

He wasn't "released" he was outed & had to make the best out of bad situation. I find it highly f*cked up even Bobby mentioned he was pissed about it in his solo it was his choice when to come out & Jean took that away it's fucked up even more so as you mentioned because they were so young, X-Men Gold retconned Bobby into being 12 when he joined the X-men this version is probably only like 14 that's a horrible experience for a kid.

It can be horrible for a kid, yes. But it wasn't for Bobby in anything that we saw following the reveal, aside from his confrontation with Jean, which was chronoligcally for them, years later. Now should the negative of this type of outing not be ignored? It shouldn't. But again, coming out is different for everyone and for Bobby it happened to be a general good outcome. And Jean was also a kid. A kid who got premature access to a power that she wasn't meant to have much later. The fantastical aspects of this story should count in terms of how this played out.

There's never going to be a fully 1 to 1 agreement for how these stories should be handled and it doesn't help that a lot of us come from a past with trauma regarding our sexuality or gender identity that not everyone has been exposed to.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It can be horrible for a kid, yes. But it wasn't for Bobby in anything that we saw following the reveal, aside from his confrontation with Jean, which was chronoligcally for them, years later. Now should the negative of this type of outing not be ignored? It shouldn't. But again, coming out is different for everyone and for Bobby it happened to be a general good outcome. And Jean was also a kid. A kid who got premature access to a power that she wasn't meant to have much later. The fantastical aspects of this story should count in terms of how this played out.

There's never going to be a fully 1 to 1 agreement for how these stories should be handled and it doesn't help that a lot of us come from a past with trauma regarding our sexuality or gender identity that not everyone has been exposed to.

Quoting in support and agreement.

[Journey]

Look at the end of the day yeah it worked out for him not denying that, getting outted was the only interesting thing to happen Bobby in years. However I stand firmly believing the way it was done was f*cked up mostly cause Bendis is a hack. And defend Jean to the cows come home whatever reasons she had doesn't negate her messiness it wasn't her choice & it was wrong & that's just where i'm at.

[Mercury]

Look at the end of the day yeah it worked out for him not denying that, getting outted was the only interesting thing to happen Bobby in years. However I stand firmly believing the way it was done was f*cked up mostly cause Bendis is a hack. And defend Jean to the cows come home whatever reasons she had doesn't negate her messiness it wasn't her choice & it was wrong & that's just where i'm at.

I respect your stance but do want to underscore one last thing: Neither my best friend nor mother are "messy" for essentially pushing me out of the closet. Could they have been more subtle in prompting me to come out? Sure. However, I do not blame nor criticize them for what they did, nor would I change how things eventually unfolded. They both came from a place of love and concern and knowing that fills me with a love I can't quite describe.

In fact, I shudder when I think of how differently things may have unfolded had neither taken the initiative. How and when would I have come out? Would I have come out at all? Frankly, I am not sure...