You can't compare a debut issue to issue #83. That's ridiculous. first issues sell a lot and then plunge in sales, you can see if for every single comic.
And if we are comparing debut issues, you can't compare Jace's numbers to either Robin or the Detective numbers, or even Nightwing's debut in 2016, if you're so eager to compare between the two.
The comichorn numbers seem more reliable, so I cited them regarding Superman son of kal-el, but anyway his debut issue also sold out and got a 2nd printing. Jace's book didn't.
And that's without mentioning that it's a Batman book - so there are differences expectations.
Again, if Jace attracts readers- great, and if he sells well - great for his fans, but if he his series doesn't sell as expected of Batman, I hope they move him to an elseworld setting, because he doesn't really work in the main universe.
He works fine in the main universe, I don't know what you're talking about. Especially since Bruce is leaving Gotham. He's the exact same as Yara Flor.
Also, icv2 is the most accurate and:
1. He's not in Batman, he's in I Am Batman. Big difference.
2. Batman: The Detective and Robin are starring established characters.
Last edited by Superboy-Prime; 09-22-2021 at 04:58 PM.
ICV ratings is based on a sample of 100 stores, how can you say it's more accurate? On what data or you basing your claims?
Jace doesn't work in a shared world with Bruce and the Batfamily.
In a world in which all the batfamily are dead, as well as Bruce, he could work. Or in a world when Bruce approves of him after seeing him operating for a while. But as long as he's claiming to be Batman without receiving Bruce's blessing, neither a normal Bruce nor the batfamily would accept it.
Geoffrey Thorne, the writer of Green Lantern, has stated icv2 is the most accurate.
That's what makes Jace interesting. As long as he does a good job, the Bat-Family will eventually accept him, because Batman is a symbol that can be anybody. But he doesn't want nor require their permission, and he doesn't even respect the original Batman. I'd argue he only works in a "shared world," as his perceived notion of Batman as Lucius and Bruce's private soldier has to be challenged by someone. And Lucius can't do that, seeing as he's suffering from PTSD.
“Better” is subjective. I think this origin works fine, it’s clearly unique compared to the rest of the Batfamily.
I can think of numerous heroes who are trying to make up for past sins via being heroes. It’s a pretty common trope. Including Bruce who has committed countless war crimes and other atrocities throughout his career.
Nobody cares about any of those characters. Wilder becoming Batwoman tanked the views for Batwoman. Duke is one of the least popular Batfamily members as is Luke.That might seem edgy or creative to very small minority in the comics world. But when you try to sell that to the larger public, it is going down like a lead balloon. It is honestly astounding sometimes to see how little comics community understand the broader public. And for DC, how little they understand an essential business intellectual property like Batman. Imagine DC's business model with no Batman sales.
Today the only significant public interest in a Fox Batman character is Luke Fox as Batwing on television.
There are a lot of people (relatively) interested in Ryan Wilder, Luke Fox, Duke Thomas.
But even that is a very small percent. I can only imagine if you foisted Jace Fox's negative origin on these characters.
Luke is boring and hilariously they already tried what you’re suggesting with Luke. He took over the Batwing mantle from David and ran the title into the ground. David was, like Jace, a unique character who had his own spin on being a Bat. Luke in contrast was another Gotham vigilante who did the typical Batfamily things. He’s a fine B-Lister but he’s not main character material. He lacks the edge that Batman needs.As I previously mentioned, 145,000+ Tweets on Batman Day, I found 13 on Jace.
Luke Fox is a much more marketable and positive character as a Batman family character and/or as a future Batman.
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
I can't find Thorne citation saying that. Could you please provide a link? If it's true, that's good to know.
As for new characters debuting with lower sales - Wonder girl #1 debut issue was the 5th bestseller comic in May based on ICV2 (she's also a new character with a new series, so very comparable to Jace, and she's not even claiming the WW mantle).
So again, based on those numbers, it's impossible to call Jace's debut issue a success.
Of course, it's not final yet. The real test would be his #1 issue, but unless issue #1 would sell much better ( it should, since that was supposed to be his big launch) that's a very weak opening for his new series.
As for the batfam leaving Jace "if he's doing a good job" - that's incredibly out of character for all of them. Especially for the paranoid and untrusting Bruce.
The batfam would not see kindly someone pretending to be their mentor (unless Jace is making it 100% clear he's not the original Batman and is actually a "Brand new Batman", and in that case, that would probably be his mantle, not just "Batman").
Again, it's one thing to be a masked vigilante in Gotham, and another one to claim the Batman mantle.
I wouldn't mind if it would make sense. I just wonder how it's going to work without making either the Batfamily or Jace look bad, and if the readers would accept it (again, right now Jace isn't popular, and enough evidence support it)
DC would probably try to adjust everything based on the readers reception. We already know they eventually course-correct when sales show lack of interest. Look at what they did with Damian or with Dick.
And I think that if they'll have to make a choice between the two, it wouldn't be wise for them to chose Jace.
Btw - could you add Thorne reference about the sales?