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  1. #76
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Bendis' run peaked with the first arc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Cantwell must've forgot Patsy is a pampered middle-class white girl when he added her to this run. If it was one of the ex-Force Works girls like Wanda or Julia it might've worked.
    Yeah, Patsy's not really all that different from Janet (just not as rich or well-off by comparison, and more of a model than a fashion designer). She's usually more bubbly and friendly and less...scathing.
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The relationship with Hellcat feels incredibly inorganic. She's spent the entire run preaching down to Stark, but somehow he finds they are attracted to each other? By rights, he should find her to be a tiresome scold, and she clearly has contempt for him. I don't buy the attraction, to the point where them hooking up startled me. I was, like wuuuuhh???
    Belligerent sexual tension?

  2. #77
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Cantwell must've forgot Patsy is a pampered middle-class white girl when he added her to this run. If it was one of the ex-Force Works girls like Wanda or Julia it might've worked.



    People must've forgot Bendis's sins:

    1) started Beard Bros. with Strange
    2) brought in MJ for no reason
    3) brought in random character as his mum and made her stick around for no reason
    4) made some random character Iron Man
    At least with 2, there was a reason --- namely, the terrible oversight made by the Spider-Office in an era where Mary Jane Watson's role in the mythos was still being actively demeaned and dismissed. Can't say it was the best idea to have her in his Iron Man run, but as a fan of the character, it was somewhat better than letting her fade into obscurity. However, I would question it from the vantage point of her working for the same guy who convinced her (ex-)husband to publicly out himself as Spider-Man in the original Civil War, whether one thought Iron Man's overall intentions were morally sound or not, which did start a domino effect that led to her and said (ex-)husband becoming fugitives and ultimately trading their marriage to the in-universe equivalent of Satan to save Aunt May from dying of a bullet wound (that somehow no one else could heal or treat).

    3, I'd blame more on Kieron Gillen's retcon in his previous Iron Man run that Howard and Maria Stark weren't Tony's real parents.

    4, I'd have preferred bringing back Lila Rhodes, Rhodey's niece from his Iron Patriot miniseries, to take up the mantle instead of making up a new character, but at least Eve Ewing did a better job with that particular character than Bendis did introducing her.

    Can't say much about 1 because that's chump change compared to some of the more egregious things that happened under Bendis's tenure . . . like the entirety of Civil War II.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The relationship with Hellcat feels incredibly inorganic. She's spent the entire run preaching down to Stark, but somehow he finds they are attracted to each other? By rights, he should find her to be a tiresome scold, and she clearly has contempt for him. I don't buy the attraction, to the point where them hooking up startled me. I was, like wuuuuhh???
    I'm a Hellcat fan -- one of the reasons I'm collecting this run. But the preaching aspect isn't Patsy to me. I think Stark can be (and most is) pompous, but I agree that the storytelling so far does not ring true for me. Still, it's nice to see Hellcat illustrated by Alex Ross on the covers!

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I don't buy the attraction, to the point where them hooking up startled me. I was, like wuuuuhh???
    There was a very clever issue of Black Cat early last year in which she wore a red wig as a means of distracting Tony's attention. I guess she figured two of his long-term GFs had red hair, so it made sense. I think that may be all there is between Tony and Patsy (they really don't have much of a past except that he was with her when she first became Hellcat).

  5. #80
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The relationship with Hellcat feels incredibly inorganic. She's spent the entire run preaching down to Stark, but somehow he finds they are attracted to each other? By rights, he should find her to be a tiresome scold, and she clearly has contempt for him. I don't buy the attraction, to the point where them hooking up startled me. I was, like wuuuuhh???
    Did Tony and Janet break up off-panel, or did Slott actually show it?

    Even though I read every issue, I'm drawing a blank...
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  6. #81
    Spectacular Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Did Tony and Janet break up off-panel, or did Slott actually show it?

    Even though I read every issue, I'm drawing a blank...
    She broke up with him in issue one. It was a very short interaction, given almost havs a pages worth of time and was probably my biggest problem with the issue. I've mostly liked the rest though.

    But yea it was literally "hey Tony, this isnt working out. Let's break up." "Ok" and thats it.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Did Tony and Janet break up off-panel, or did Slott actually show it?

    Even though I read every issue, I'm drawing a blank...
    Yes, Slott showed Tony breaking up with Jan in the final issue of his TONY STARK: IRON MAN run. It was when he was having the identity crisis of being a "copy" of Tony Stark rather than a real person. At the end of Slott's IRON MAN 2020 mini it was left ambiguous as to whether Tony and Jan would get back together again now that Tony's identity crisis was resolved.

    Cantwell closed the door on it in the first issue of his run by having Jan tell Tony that she had moved on and they mutually agreed it was for the best.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Cantwell must've forgot Patsy is a pampered middle-class white girl when he added her to this run.
    That's a pretty broad label that overlooks a lot of context. That "pampered girl" was exploited by her emotionally abusive mother, has been through two nasty divorces, went through a period of insanity, and committed suicide.

    There's no denying she also has had a lot of privilege in her background--but that's part of where she gets her perspective for calling Tony out on some of his crap. She can recognize some of it from her own background and experience. Patsy's been a success and she's been a mess, and everything in between. She may be taking a rather harsh "tough love" approach with Tony a lot of the time here, but she's trying to help him with the benefit of things she's learned along the way.

  9. #84
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    That's a pretty broad label that overlooks a lot of context. That "pampered girl" was exploited by her emotionally abusive mother, has been through two nasty divorces, went through a period of insanity, and committed suicide.

    There's no denying she also has had a lot of privilege in her background--but that's part of where she gets her perspective for calling Tony out on some of his crap. She can recognize some of it from her own background and experience. Patsy's been a success and she's been a mess, and everything in between. She may be taking a rather harsh "tough love" approach with Tony a lot of the time here, but she's trying to help him with the benefit of things she's learned along the way.
    Well said. Pretty much my feelings on this matter.
    " There are individuals out there who are so intent on violent engagement with me that they will go to great lengths to engineer one...including the murder of those close to me. And everything I've come to believe about myself and my so called evolution...they completely disregard. They just don't get it. They're fighting against an inevitable future, but they just don't realize I'm already there...I Am The Future.." TONY STARK

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    That's a pretty broad label that overlooks a lot of context. That "pampered girl" was exploited by her emotionally abusive mother, has been through two nasty divorces, went through a period of insanity, and committed suicide.

    There's no denying she also has had a lot of privilege in her background--but that's part of where she gets her perspective for calling Tony out on some of his crap. She can recognize some of it from her own background and experience. Patsy's been a success and she's been a mess, and everything in between. She may be taking a rather harsh "tough love" approach with Tony a lot of the time here, but she's trying to help him with the benefit of things she's learned along the way.
    Except she rarely, if ever, acknowledges her own privilege and hasn't used her own experiences as a guide so much as a bludgeon.

    Its less tough love, and more being a jerk

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Except she rarely, if ever, acknowledges her own privilege and hasn't used her own experiences as a guide so much as a bludgeon.

    Its less tough love, and more being a jerk
    I agree. She comes off as condescending than caring/tough love.


    And yeah she has gone through struggles and dark times but so has Tony. She acting like his experiences, traumas and mental breakdowns arenít as valid as hers just because he is a more ďpopular/richer white guyĒ when itís not right at all. I have seen few people calling Patsy a white feminist .. and thatís very true.

    Apart from Patsys annoying personality, I am loving the run but Tony went from boring Janet to annoying Patsy. Tony needs to raise his standards. These women ainít it frfr
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Iron Man goes to infamous character for help. https://www.cbr.com/iron-man-wants-t...with-superpro/
    NFL Superpro!!!! Love that shout out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    She broke up with him in issue one. It was a very short interaction, given almost havs a pages worth of time and was probably my biggest problem with the issue. I've mostly liked the rest though.

    But yea it was literally "hey Tony, this isnt working out. Let's break up." "Ok" and thats it.
    At least it was dealt with and not just ignored.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 01-27-2021 at 07:31 AM.

  13. #88
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitParallel View Post
    I agree. She comes off as condescending than caring/tough love.


    And yeah she has gone through struggles and dark times but so has Tony. She acting like his experiences, traumas and mental breakdowns aren’t as valid as hers just because he is a more “popular/richer white guy” when it’s not right at all. I have seen few people calling Patsy a white feminist .. and that’s very true.

    Apart from Patsys annoying personality, I am loving the run but Tony went from boring Janet to annoying Patsy. Tony needs to raise his standards. These women ain’t it frfr
    I guess being married to The Son of Satan is enough to make anyone mental.

  14. #89
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Yes, Slott showed Tony breaking up with Jan in the final issue of his TONY STARK: IRON MAN run. It was when he was having the identity crisis of being a "copy" of Tony Stark rather than a real person. At the end of Slott's IRON MAN 2020 mini it was left ambiguous as to whether Tony and Jan would get back together again now that Tony's identity crisis was resolved.

    Cantwell closed the door on it in the first issue of his run by having Jan tell Tony that she had moved on and they mutually agreed it was for the best.
    Ooh yeah. That sounds familiar.

    I really liked them together, and that scene was super rushed.
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  15. #90
    Incredible Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The relationship with Hellcat feels incredibly inorganic. She's spent the entire run preaching down to Stark, but somehow he finds they are attracted to each other? By rights, he should find her to be a tiresome scold, and she clearly has contempt for him. I don't buy the attraction, to the point where them hooking up startled me. I was, like wuuuuhh???
    It was awkward. Patsy doesn't give him a easy time and from nowhere let's have sex. I saw it more like sex for the wrong reasons, just a way to have some good time while everything is crappy

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