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  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    "Your friendly neighborhood mayor!"

    His bodyguards would get fired because he would keep giving them the slip to go be Spidey.
    Unless Ben is still Spider-man.

  2. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rward777 View Post
    Unless Ben is still Spider-man.
    You think Peter can give up the urge?

  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    You think Peter can give up the urge?
    For a while

  4. #1174
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rward777 View Post
    For a while
    I'd give it a month at best.

  5. #1175
    BANNED Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    What? That's a severely distorted view of Stark's times in official positions. That said, I hate that they are having him run for mayor, simply because I find the idea of Stark as mayor to be incredibly boring. Stark works best when he's a maverick blend of cowboy and mad scientist. I don't understand the desire to make him The Man or The Establishment. He's at his best when he's opposed to The Man/The Establishment. I'd prefer him working to bring down Fisk in some method that doesn't involve replacing him. Using science to uncover his crimes, for example. In Iron Man III, Stark was basically a detective for most of the movie, uncovering Killian's crimes, and that worked wonderfully.
    Hmm not so sure about that, Tony has been great as both Sec. of Defense and SHIELD Dir. He rang true as a NeoCon Cowboy as so much of his history supports it though granted writers have tried to invert it or subvert it. The tech companies of today run into the same pro-capitalist issues.

  6. #1176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    He doesn't need to be mayor to do that though. He'd do better being a donor and backing someone else to undo all of Fisk's work.

    And no one has sued Fisk on the legal issues just to challenge him on it.
    Fair enough. I think Zdarsky is more interested in the potential political theater of having Tony run against Fisk. He could accomplish that as a donor but it's less fun to watch.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 12-13-2021 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #1177
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    Stark is not a Neo-Con. If anything, his enemies tend to embody Neo-Con thinking. Iron Man stories tend to treat Neo-Cons as villains who make intensely ethical businessmen like Stark look bad. Stark is largely concerned with creating things like clean energy, a Progressive position. He stopped being written as pro-Vietnam war waaaayyyyy back, irrc, about 50 years ago, the same time as all the other Marvel heroes did, once it became more important to be anti-war than anti-communist. So 50 years of being anti-war versus 10 years of being anti-communist and therefore de facto pro-war at the same time that Spider-Man, Captain America, and the Fantastic Four were also on the anti-communist bandwagon.

    I don't think Stark as a politician serves the character. It's just detracting from the things that make him interesting.

  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Faur enough. I think Zdarsky is more interested in the potential political theater of having Tony run against Fisk. He could accomplish that as a donor but it's less fun to watch.
    Yeah I'm sure a head-to-head Fisk vs Tony for mayor would be a better read. In reality though, Tony would just outspend Fisk and bury him in negative ads. Fisk could try to do the same but he doesn't have the money on the same level and Tony can counter with all the times he's saved Earth and his philanthropic history.

  9. #1179
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    Tony could use his science, money, and personal genius to perform detective work that utterly uncovers Fisk's foulness. But this is a Daredevil story, so Stark will be this very passive figure who gets casually outplayed by Fisk.

    You know who should be running for Mayor of New York? Captain America. It would make the most sense, and he'd have the best chance of winning. But Fisk is intended to win this, and precious darling Captain America would never be allowed to lose. So mysteriously Captain America is nowhere to be found at the start of a completely Captain America-ish story.
    Last edited by MichaelC; 12-13-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  10. #1180
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xheight View Post
    Hmm not so sure about that, Tony has been great as both Sec. of Defense and SHIELD Dir.
    Exactly! People always knock Tony for his stints as both of those, but it took a woman with the power to wipe out mutants and an alien race thousands of years a head of us to get him fired from both positions.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  11. #1181
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    I don't think either story served the character. Iron Man's thing is to use science to defeat foes, sometimes in the form of inventions, sometimes in the form of detective work, and sometimes in the form of using the environment in way that fudges the line between science and tactics. His thing isn't using troops, so in stories where they put him in charge of troops, those troops end up as canon-fodder, disposed of quickly so Stark can get on the case doing what he always does: use science for loner wins. In the Director of SHIELD story, what amazing thing did the troops under his command do? Mostly, they just died horribly at the hands of The Mandarin. The Mandarin destroyed SHIELD, and only once SHIELD was mostly destroyed did Stark use science in multiple forms to pull off the loner win.

    Stark is a loner character. The things that make him work need him to be mostly solo, with maybe a couple of friends to get tied to the railroad tracks periodically. You stick him with more than that, and the writer will turn those characters into canon-fodder to get Stark back to the place where his story-engine functions.

    It's just the nature of the character, and deviations from it have never served the character.

  12. #1182
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I don't think either story served the character. Iron Man's thing is to use science to defeat foes, sometimes in the form of inventions, sometimes in the form of detective work, and sometimes in the form of using the environment in way that fudges the line between science and tactics. His thing isn't using troops, so in stories where they put him in charge of troops, those troops end up as canon-fodder, disposed of quickly so Stark can get on the case doing what he always does: use science for loner wins. In the Director of SHIELD story, what amazing thing did the troops under his command do? Mostly, they just died horribly at the hands of The Mandarin. The Mandarin destroyed SHIELD, and only once SHIELD was mostly destroyed did Stark use science in multiple forms to pull off the loner win.

    Stark is a loner character. The things that make him work need him to be mostly solo, with maybe a couple of friends to get tied to the railroad tracks periodically. You stick him with more than that, and the writer will turn those characters into canon-fodder to get Stark back to the place where his story-engine functions.

    It's just the nature of the character, and deviations from it have never served the character.
    Come to think of it, that sounds an awful lot like classic Spider-Man, at least in terms of him being quintessentially a loner and working best that way. It's a shame Civil War tainted things between them, though.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #1183
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    I'd say they are loner characters for different reasons. Spider-Man is a loner because he needs to be mistrusted by the general public. Iron Man is a loner because the things he does, inventing, detective work, and using the environment, are all basically variations on science. Even his detective work is less working perps/contacts and more hacking and forensics.

    The characters who work best as leaders are designed to win by inspiring people. Captain America, for example, works perfectly well in a story where he inspires a bunch of oppressed and downtrodden people to rise up and rush their oppressors and inspires that scientist working for the villains to change sides and do whatever scientific miracle the story requires and inspires several other people to use whatever plot-relevant skills they have. You can have a Captain America story where Rogers does almost nothing but kicking ass and making speeches, while the people he inspires to either rise up, or switch sides, do everything else, and it works perfectly.

    That doesn't work for Iron Man. People don't watch Iron Man to see him make speeches. Iron Man is there to be a super-genius mad-scientist in a flying tank and do all the loner stuff that sort of character does to win.

  14. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I'd say they are loner characters for different reasons. Spider-Man is a loner because he needs to be mistrusted by the general public. Iron Man is a loner because the things he does, inventing, detective work, and using the environment, are all basically variations on science. Even his detective work is less working perps/contacts and more hacking and forensics.

    The characters who work best as leaders are designed to win by inspiring people. Captain America, for example, works perfectly well in a story where he inspires a bunch of oppressed and downtrodden people to rise up and rush their oppressors and inspires that scientist working for the villains to change sides and do whatever scientific miracle the story requires and inspires several other people to use whatever plot-relevant skills they have. You can have a Captain America story where Rogers does almost nothing but kicking ass and making speeches, while the people he inspires to either rise up, or switch sides, do everything else, and it works perfectly.

    That doesn't work for Iron Man. People don't watch Iron Man to see him make speeches. Iron Man is there to be a super-genius mad-scientist in a flying tank and do all the loner stuff that sort of character does to win.
    Pretty good analysis as well on that front. They might be similar in some ways on the surface, but going deeper than that, even those similarities come about for vastly different reasons.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #1185
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    I’m excited to see Tony run for Mayor against Fisk. Although the regular citizens of the MU will probably vote for Fisk as the aren’t that smart. I’ve wanted to see Tony go up against Fisk in someway shape or form since they both owned stock in Damage Control. Also I don’t mind Tony creating villains. I just don’t want it be all the time. The first issue of Captain America/Iron Man was fun. They even brought in characters from the 50 State Initiative. Tony was also in Hulk #1 which was a very good first issue. Tony has an amazing armor built in the Hulk issue that should be seen by any Shell Head fans. He’s also in The Death of Doctor Strange. So there is a lot of great material out there with our boy to please the palette.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 12-14-2021 at 08:52 PM.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

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