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  1. #1741
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    No, especially with the MAX Zatanna being made with the long term goal of culminating in a JLD show.
    We can only hope that the individual series let the characters stand out individually rather than have to force a singular tone or vision.

  2. #1742
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    I hope they let Zatanna get the light in a dark world characterization she used to have

  3. #1743
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    Will Zatanna ever be free from JLD? It's been 3 volumes and 8 years so it's safe to say that she just doesn't work on the horror style jld tries to have. Her character has become so boring and she pretty much lost off her supporting cast and fun gimmick. outside of guest and specials her comics self seems hollow.
    I mean, those of us who are familiar with the character pre Nu52 may see the JLD version as flawed but does DC? Especially after almost 10 years of semi consistent publishing plus movie and now the basis of the upcoming HBO Max JLD universe.

    The upcoming Batman: Urban Legends story arc coming out next will focus on Batman and Zatanna plus the Harley Quinn show tie in comic features Zee in her classic look along with Vixen, so fingers crossed for us getting the classic Zatanna back and hopefully those appearances leading to a solo ongoing that does her character justice.

    Hopefully, the upcoming YJ arc does her character justice and will people to question her depiction in JLD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    I'm excited for Zee's arc in Young justice. I hope they show some creativity in her use of magic. The last season's Zee vs Klarion was such a lackluster fight. Zee ended it in 2 seconds with one spell.

    "Ooh she's so powerful that she only needs one spell" STOP!!! please give me some crazy visuals like Dr Strange v Thanos or Merlin vs Mim.
    Yes, this. Especially given that she is a performer/showman, her fights should be creative, wild and clever.

  4. #1744
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    No, especially with the MAX Zatanna being made with the long term goal of culminating in a JLD show.
    Hmm, got my wires crossed for a second and thought "why are you talking about a Zatanna (Marvel) MAX series".

  5. #1745
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Hmm, got my wires crossed for a second and thought "why are you talking about a Zatanna (Marvel) MAX series".
    Well I certainly wouldn’t mind a BL Zatanna book
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  6. #1746

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    So, I have many mixed feelings about the Annual and I think it's down to three things (Zatanna's characterization already mentioned)

    spoilers:
    Firstly, I don't care for the reason that Merlin is evil. It really subtracts from what made him an enjoyable villain to me: he was "down to earth" in comparison to the previous baddies since he's a mortal who is driven by mortal aspirations such as purpose and ideology. He's a magical threat but he's a different kind of threat, which helps diversify what the team faces. Now, it turns out that Merlin was turned evil against his will, and he was turned evil to make the preparations to protect Earth against some nebulous threat (that I really hope don't turn out to be Darkseid)

    I like that the Justice League: Dark series has only had villains whose motivation you knew in fulll.

    Secondly, the bargain was just terrible. There was not sufficient enough reason provided for why it was considered worthwhile to take, let alone at that asking price. They agreed to trade an incredibly powerful magical item that they couldn't defeat to a magical serial killer in exchange for Merlin's child-like hope? They didn't even lay a case for how they could use it. I'm going to be so annoyed if they are actually planning on keeping the deal honest, like they better be planning on scamming Mister E by finding or inventing some kind of loophole. If they dont, I'm considering it idiocy and out-of-character behavior.


    Thirdly, "Why not? Childlike hope is everything we've been missing. Everything magic should be." feels like a repeat of the Upside Down storyline, but it doesn't work in this storyline because it's not the same situation. The lead-up arcs to the Upside-Down Man finale established the power of belief and why it was relevant. It worked to earn it. Here it's just in place of an actual reason - a poor excuse.

    These things really bothered me about the issue. The first is going to affect my enjoyment of the storyline and the second might.

    A small thing is that I still don't know why the Knight character was invented. It feels like she could have died in her first scene with Merlin and it wouldn't have impacted the plot. Her saving Singh could have been given to literally any other character - like Jason Blood. Even here, she might as well not have been there. She has no lines; she contributes nothing to the conversation including a reaction to learning that Merlin, someone she trusted and who left her for dead, got turned evil against his will. The one time I noticed her, I legit thought she was Wonder Woman and wondered why Diana's armor looked different before I remembered who she was.

    There were things I liked, though.
    Diana's story.
    The encounter between Yaga Khan and Merlin being played backwards - it was creative.
    In theory, I can understand the reasons in the team for them having internal troubles. Unfortunately, the execution lacking.

    As a final note: Poor Khalid. He loses his uncle and mentor, he loses his powers and now he's been told he's basically destined to lose his home. All he's got left is the clothes on his back, which, I guess, Merlin is technically coming for since he's after the helmet of fate.

    Also, I hope Nabu comes back. It's not that I dislike Hauhet; I just don't want her to be a replacement. Nabu was an actual character in the previous storyline, I like his interactions with Khalid and the whole Lord of Order in the helmet is one of the things that makes Doctor Fate unique.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by TheCasualReader; 12-01-2021 at 02:03 AM.

  7. #1747
    Spectacular Member Zee_Fan's Avatar
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    I'm a late bloomer, so my introduction to Zee was the N52 JLD. But I pretty quickly went back and read her 2010 solo series and Everyday Magic while that JLD run was going on. I know I'm in the minority, but I still prefer N52 JLD to the current.

    I haven't read the annual yet, I'll probably get around to it this week. But as bummed as I was when the current JLD was relegated to a backup title, I'm pretty much ready for it to end now. Still keeping my fingers crossed we get another Zee solo book that portrays her better. If we do get another JLD down the line, I hope it can incorporate some more fun instead of being dark and gloomy and apocalyptic all the time.

  8. #1748

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    Zatanna_Gen_2_(JLG) dc - zatanna costume.jpg

    Worromot!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Yeah, it reflects very poorly on her. I hope there is more explanation in the annual itself but I'm not holding my breath.
    (This was written pre-Annual release)

    It doesn’t feel like there’s going to be an explanation. I feel like sometimes you can tell by the writing, regardless of whether it’s bad or not, if something is by intent, by mistake, by disinterest and so forth. With Zatanna, it feels like that what you see is going be what you can expect to see onward. At best, it’ll be played off as a flaw brought on by something but it’s not going to be due to some magical influence - unless the author decides to course correct and needs a soft retcon to enable that, of course. The conversation with Rory made it seem like it’s meant to be part of a pattern of people keeping their dark secrets (ex. Rory, Zatanna, Jason) – a theme, basically. Unfortunately, it’s the story coming before the characters rather than the two organically intertwining.

    You can make an argument for why Rory may want to keep the Suit of Souls’ hunger a secret – although I think it’s more tell than show since we haven’t seen anything that makes me think Zatanna had reason to doubt him about his motivation for joining, let alone confront him about it. But you can’t make a substantial enough argument for why Zatanna would keep her problems with the Upside Down Man a secret.

    It’s not even that you couldn’t have created a reason. For example, Zatanna didn’t start having doubts until during the story itself and she felt compelled to believe she was just imagining it because she didn’t feel like she could sit out the fight with Merlin due to being one of the team’s heavy hitter (or she thought she could manage until reinforcements – Doctor Fate and the knight lady - arrived) Afterwards, Zatanna isn’t dismissive but apologetic. Instead of keeping something that big a secret for literally no reason and acting dismissive and playing the victims when called out on how the consequences affected everyone and the mission which makes her come across as incredible unlikable and irresponsible, the reader is instead left with the impression that she made a bad call but that her reasoning was understandable.


    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I don't think Zatanna gels with the team as well as people think she does.
    I think this is more down to the writing than the characters. I can see ways that she could develop an enjoyable dynamic with some of her teammates. For example, Khalid: At the end of the Justice League: Dark series, he has lost Kent who was his family and mentor, a loss that Zatanna can identify with due to the loss of her own father. The story could have developed a natural relationship between the two in which she plays a sort of big sister role because she knows a lot of what he’s going through and the toll it can take on someone. For added bonus, Zatanna is also a legacy character so maybe, she knows what it’s like to be worried about following in someone else’s footsteps and that you need to recognize that you are casting your own shadow, not standing in someone else’s.

    Not saying that I think they should have gone with this – Khalid and Zatanna both having lost parental figures was just something I remembered off the top of my head - it’s just a quick example to illustrate why I think the problem is the writing, not the characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I'm not the biggest fan of the Khalid Nassour Dr Fate but nice to see that he has fans as well.
    Yeah, I'm hoping he sticks around and maybe gets a shot at a new solo series. After I became a fan of the character, I went and bought the Doctor Fate (2015) series where he was first introduced. It's not great and that's such a real shame because all of the ideas are actually good: it's the execution that causes the story to fall flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I'm not a fan of JLD name since it sounds like coffee order. Is there a Justice League Latte? Justice League Cappuccino?
    You know, I’d love it if there was a book that was titled Justice League: Latte or Justice League: Cappuccino because it’s a super-covert division whose cover is that they’re basically the League’s lunch team. Like, they have those little coffee carts and fetch lunches for the heroes while secretly conducting their operations without being listed in the official records as an actual superhero team. They make sure there’s no cross-contamination for allergic superheroes while also preventing a villainous plot to poison the catering for the Hall of Justice. Bonus, if the heroes have powers (“useless” or just very specific) and problems (ex. anxiety or stage fright) that mean they aren’t suited for normal superhero activities

    Okay, I’d actually give that book a shot and buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I think Sentinels of Magic at least makes them a sense of purpose and power. Like yeah, this is the team of the baddest magicians in the DCU.

    My own fanon name would be 'Keepers of Magic'.
    Yeah, I can see that. Keepers of Magic is good, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee_Fan View Post
    I'm a late bloomer, so my introduction to Zee was the N52 JLD. But I pretty quickly went back and read her 2010 solo series and Everyday Magic while that JLD run was going on. I know I'm in the minority, but I still prefer N52 JLD to the current.

    I haven't read the annual yet, I'll probably get around to it this week. But as bummed as I was when the current JLD was relegated to a backup title, I'm pretty much ready for it to end now. Still keeping my fingers crossed we get another Zee solo book that portrays her better. If we do get another JLD down the line, I hope it can incorporate some more fun instead of being dark and gloomy and apocalyptic all the time.
    I hope it doesn't end soon since this is the only book that features Doctor Fate as a member of the main cast. If it ends, he's probably going to go back to cameos only.

    It'd be nice if Zatanna could be in a Wonder Woman situation where she has her own solo series in addition to appearing in the Justice League: Dark book.
    Last edited by TheCasualReader; 12-01-2021 at 01:11 PM.

  9. #1749

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    Is there a way to turn on reply notifications?

    I haven't been able to find it.

  10. #1750
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    why hasnt DC used the sentinels ?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinels_of_Magic

    I knew Raven had a way out of titans

  11. #1751
    Spectacular Member Zee_Fan's Avatar
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    Near the top under the thread title there's a Thread Tools drop-down. You can subscribe from there there. I haven't actually used it, but I assume it works.

  12. #1752
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Who doesn't?
    Greenlight the Smallville animated series, WB!

  13. #1753
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCasualReader View Post
    Is there a way to turn on reply notifications?

    I haven't been able to find it.
    Don't worry, stick around long and you'll become a forum monster checking threads every few hours and opening all the updated ones like the rest of us.

    Or you can subscribe, as mentioned above.

    Welcome to the boards, by the way. We can always use more fans on here.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  14. #1754
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Who doesn't?
    Cass speaks for us all.

  15. #1755
    Spectacular Member Mai Zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee_Fan View Post
    Near the top under the thread title there's a Thread Tools drop-down. You can subscribe from there there. I haven't actually used it, but I assume it works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee_Fan View Post
    I'm a late bloomer, so my introduction to Zee was the N52 JLD. But I pretty quickly went back and read her 2010 solo series and Everyday Magic while that JLD run was going on. I know I'm in the minority, but I still prefer N52 JLD to the current.

    I haven't read the annual yet, I'll probably get around to it this week. But as bummed as I was when the current JLD was relegated to a backup title, I'm pretty much ready for it to end now. Still keeping my fingers crossed we get another Zee solo book that portrays her better. If we do get another JLD down the line, I hope it can incorporate some more fun instead of being dark and gloomy and apocalyptic all the time.
    Same, I kinda dig the late game new 52 Zee when She sporting the more superheroine outfit. She is bold there when taking the lead.

    Well kinda anxious as Ram V leaving JLD when Zatanna is still on the down side in characterizations. Still looking forward for the Merlin wrap up. Hopefully new team could continue it

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