Zatanna Zatara: Mistress of Magic Appreciation 2021

[Vordan]

I see. I know Marvel has many magic users. But do myth-based characters like Wonder Woman technically count?

Also, have Zatanna's powers always been dark magic?

Traditionally WW has been strictly superheroes while Zatanna has walked the line between mainline and Vertigo. JLD however let Diana dip her toe in the Vertigo world and definitely played up her mystical/divine connection.

[Mai Zen]

I see. I know Marvel has many magic users. But do myth-based characters like Wonder Woman technically count?

Also, have Zatanna's powers always been dark magic?

Hard to say, as far as I know only Mordhru the Lord of Chaos that using Chaos Magic. Zatanna once use it too to defeat Nabu at JLD vol.2 run.

[John Venus]

As I like to bring up, her superhero costume in DCSHG is based of her superhero outfit from the later half of the New 52 JLD, which I like and feel is a good exercise in taking her Perez era superheroine costume and incorporating iconic elements from her Stage magician outfit(fishnets, and black as the primary color). Likewise DCSHG costume gives her purple nylons in her superheroine outfit and her stage magician outfit, the way the comics version shared the fishnets. So think her later half JLD outfit or something like it could serve as a good compromise between people who think she needs something more super heroic, and those her like the iconic elements of the stage magician aesthetic. But her recent Future State outfit was great too. I just wish we could ditch the leather pants in favor of fishnet/nylon tights. They can work as part a more superhero type costume.

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I like the idea behind the costume but imo, it needs a few tweaks.

Something like this but with a cape would be my ideal:

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This costume appeared for all of two pages in Dan Jurgens Booster Gold but I always thought it was a cool modernization of the Perez costume.

Why does DC mainly tie magic to dark forces?

It has to do with the success of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, especially the American Gothic arc which introduced Constantine that lead to the 300 issue Hellblazer run. Then there was Gaiman's Books of Magic and Sandman series. Ostrander's Spectre was also dark and focused on horror. Other magical character Zatanna, Phantom Stranger, Madam Xanadu didn't have long lasting ongoings, they were either guest stars, starred in mini series or team books.

John Constantine was always on the peripherals of the DCU, he existed in his own little sub universe under the Vertigo banner that occasionally crossed over to the regular DCU. It was a space to tell stories that couldn't be told in the regular DCU or just to experiment. IIRC, they let his ongoing run for as long as it did despite the fact that it was hitting numbers that would have gotten mainstream DCU title cancelled. That's how it worked in Vertigo world. When Nu52 hit, the walls between Vertigo and the regular DCU collapsed and they decided Constantine was going to be 'magic Batman' and thus the whole narrative of JLD is built to support him. I guess Americans love the archetype of the guy who does terrible things but are often justified because it's for the greater good (see, the success of House tv show). I don't mind such a character existing but rather it not be at determent of other characters. They are trying to force a character who was built to exist on the margins to be the linchpin of their magic world and for me, it's not working.

Good point on that. I actually didn't bother with reading JLD because, well, it sounded darker than I liked (the name being more than a hint). I particularly don't care for Zee's (or Zatara's) magic often being tied into dark things, demons, etc. No never, just not routinely. A large part of that is, admittedly, that I like superheros as a genre, not horror. I do like magic (for the Zatara family) as simply a skill/ability (admittedly never been all that fond of homo magi) that runs in the family. No danger to the soul, no price exacted for it. Just an inherent ability and then training used to hone it, as with athletes and whatnot.

I prefer a more balanced approach myself.

Always thought this quote summed up the character well:

Zatanna 1 020.jpg

I see. I know Marvel has many magic users. But do myth-based characters like Wonder Woman technically count?

Also, have Zatanna's powers always been dark magic?

Yes, WWW definitely counts. Albeit it was only recently they showed her dipping her toes into the regular magic side of the DCU. Technically, so does Atlantians, Amazons, the Hawks, Vixen and anybody with mythic connections.

Depends on what you read. IIRC, only JLD has shown her delving into dark magic.

[CosmiComic]

I was kinda unsure if gods themselves in DC count as magic. In fact I'm not 100% sure on what magic is in the DCEU, as compared to scientific powers like Superman or Flash

It has to do with the success of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, especially the American Gothic arc which introduced Constantine that lead to the 300 issue Hellblazer run. Then there was Gaiman's Books of Magic and Sandman series. Ostrander's Spectre was also dark and focused on horror. Other magical character Zatanna, Phantom Stranger, Madam Xanadu didn't have long lasting ongoings, they were either guest stars, starred in mini series or team books.

John Constantine was always on the peripherals of the DCU, he existed in his own little sub universe under the Vertigo banner that occasionally crossed over to the regular DCU. It was a space to tell stories that couldn't be told in the regular DCU or just to experiment. IIRC, they let his ongoing run for as long as it did despite the fact that it was hitting numbers that would have gotten mainstream DCU title cancelled. That's how it worked in Vertigo world. When Nu52 hit, the walls between Vertigo and the regular DCU collapsed and they decided Constantine was going to be 'magic Batman' and thus the whole narrative of JLD is built to support him. I guess Americans love the archetype of the guy who does terrible things but are often justified because it's for the greater good (see, the success of House tv show). I don't mind such a character existing but rather it not be at determent of other characters. They are trying to force a character who was built to exist on the margins to be the linchpin of their magic world and for me, it's not working.

Ok. I haven't always been into the whole "I can be a jackass for the greater good" because sometimes these characters don't improve their behavior

[Hypo]

Variety: DC Films Taps ‘Promising Young Woman’ Director Emerald Fennell to Write Zatanna Superhero Movie

[Vordan]

Guess it’s a move instead of a TV show. Makes sense I guess since we heard WB wants to make a Justice League Dark movie, figures they’d want to have one of the core members up on the big screen. Rooting for this to be good! Also hopefully this means we’ll get a Zatanna mini or ongoing.

[Gaius]

I see. I know Marvel has many magic users. But do myth-based characters like Wonder Woman technically count?

Also, have Zatanna's powers always been dark magic?

I used to internally separate more myth-based characters like WW and Shazam from the magic-users but yeah, it was largely a distinction without a difference and DC seems to have adopted that mindset now also given JLD.

Variety: DC Films Taps ‘Promising Young Woman’ Director Emerald Fennell to Write Zatanna Superhero Movie

Would have preferred a show but good sign they have a writer at least.

[Will Evans]

Guess it’s a move instead of a TV show. Makes sense I guess since we heard WB wants to make a Justice League Dark movie, figures they’d want to have one of the core members up on the big screen. Rooting for this to be good! Also hopefully this means we’ll get a Zatanna mini or ongoing.

I think they’re still trying to do Traci 13 on the TVs side, so it makes sense Zatanna would be saved for films.

[Zee_Fan]

Variety: DC Films Taps ‘Promising Young Woman’ Director Emerald Fennell to Write Zatanna Superhero Movie

Awesome! This gives me hope it's going to be good.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Reserving my hype. DC announces a shit ton of projects, with talent attached, that never happen. Remember the Steven Spielberg Blackhawk movie?

[CosmiComic]

So it's a movie, but it's on HBO Max?

[Zee_Fan]

So it's a movie, but it's on HBO Max?

The link says theatrical release.

[Hypo]

So it's a movie, but it's on HBO Max?

There was a rumor mid last year that said it would be an HBO Max series - I don't believe this was ever confirmed by the bigger industry news sites (Variety, Deadline, etc.).

The new Variety report just says it's for a movie with no indication of whether it would be HBO Max exclusive.

Separately there is a Justice League Dark HBO Max series in the works.

[Triple J]

I used to internally separate more myth-based characters like WW and Shazam from the magic-users but yeah, it was largely a distinction without a difference and DC seems to have adopted that mindset now also given JLD.



Would have preferred a show but good sign they have a writer at least.

There was a rumor mid last year that said it would be an HBO Max series - I don't believe this was ever confirmed by the bigger industry news sites (Variety, Deadline, etc.).

The new Variety report just says it's for a movie with no indication of whether it would be HBO Max exclusive.

Separately there is a Justice League Dark HBO Max series in the works.

Yeah, would have preferred a show. IMO, Some of DC's and Marvel's TV outputs are far better (Doom Patrol, Legion, Daredevil) than their movies. Well, JLD series would work; but I hope it goes through, when was the last time we heard anything about it?

[Edwin30]

I'm a little bit concerned.
She doesn't seem to have much experience as a writer.

Her movie "Promisingly Young Woman" which she wrote and directed got 3 oscar nominees but thats about it for her work as a writer.

The rest of her work is acting in TV series.