Zatanna Zatara: Mistress of Magic Appreciation 2021

[Albert1981]

Coming up with a consistent rule book for magic would be one of the biggest challenges for the movie.

I hope it's not 'magic comes from other dimensions' because that seems to be what Dr Strange is about.

It will be VERY challenging. But I think it's easier to make magic consistent in a trio of movies than in superhero comic books which have characters who have existed in them for over half a century. I actually LIKE the MCU going with the "magic being pulled from different dimensions" idea. Even the whole notion of a "multiverse" is actually based on theories in physics. I've always considered Disney's Marvel magic to be very "science-y", if you get my meaning. Indeed, this article from several years ago makes the argument that Marvel Studios has been promoting the idea that magic in the MCU is just "science we don't understand yet.":

https://andphilosophy.com/2017/02/18...atic-universe/

I'm not sure if Feige and company have given up on that idea. I don't mind it personally. Magic being "science" we don't get definitely grounds it in a realistic way. But I imagine a lot of fantasy and magic fans would be pretty upset about that.

I know the DCEU has "sort of" introduced magic into its movies with Shazam! and the Wonder Woman films, but they didn't feel too "magic-y" to me. Zatanna should definitely change that. Emerald Fennell has mentioned how her script for Zatanna will be "scary and intense". That indicates to me that Zatanna will be less of a fantasy movie and more of a horror flick. The horror genre is extremely popular. My brother who absolutely DETESTS superhero fare, LOVES the Walking Dead. So do many other folks. And that's a post-apocalyptic horror television series that's proven to be wildly successful. Heck, practically any show and/or movie these days involving zombies seem to be hits (regardless of quality). So I agree with her approach to the Zatanna flick. The problem is that the Multiverse of Madness is gonna beat Zatanna to the punch!

I actually like how both DC Comics and Marvel Comics (from what I've heard) have been approaching magic lately. Magic having a price is an absolute MUST in MY opinion for any mystical story. Here's an article which basically shares my view on this matter:

https://mystorydoctor.com/the-price-of-magic/

From what I understand, Zatanna has been paying a HUGE price for her magic use lately in the comic books and from what I've read online, a lot of people are enjoying her appearances in Justice League Dark because of it.

[Gaius]

KOHINOORnastya

[Rac7d*]

05326299-613D-409D-BB84-17DA7284C837.jpg

I still want this movie

[Edwin30]

I love Zatanna but I hate Paul Dini's version of Zatanna. I can't wait for a new writer to replace Paul's 2010 run as the go-to comic to learn more about Zatanna.
Just give me a comic where the art is good and story takes magic seriously. Give me current JLD level writing for a zatanna solo.

[Robanker]

I love Zatanna but I hate Paul Dini's version of Zatanna. I can't wait for a new writer to replace Paul's 2010 run as the go-to comic to learn more about Zatanna.
Just give me a comic where the art is good and story takes magic seriously. Give me current JLD level writing for a zatanna solo.

A Zee with no humor or a bounce in her step doesn't really feel like Zee to me, at least not on the regular. It's fine for the occasional serious story, but she generally seems to be more fun than dour.

[Mai Zen]

It will be VERY challenging. But I think it's easier to make magic consistent in a trio of movies than in superhero comic books which have characters who have existed in them for over half a century. I actually LIKE the MCU going with the "magic being pulled from different dimensions" idea. Even the whole notion of a "multiverse" is actually based on theories in physics. I've always considered Disney's Marvel magic to be very "science-y", if you get my meaning. Indeed, this article from several years ago makes the argument that Marvel Studios has been promoting the idea that magic in the MCU is just "science we don't understand yet.":

https://andphilosophy.com/2017/02/18...atic-universe/

I'm not sure if Feige and company have given up on that idea. I don't mind it personally. Magic being "science" we don't get definitely grounds it in a realistic way. But I imagine a lot of fantasy and magic fans would be pretty upset about that.

I know the DCEU has "sort of" introduced magic into its movies with Shazam! and the Wonder Woman films, but they didn't feel too "magic-y" to me. Zatanna should definitely change that. Emerald Fennell has mentioned how her script for Zatanna will be "scary and intense". That indicates to me that Zatanna will be less of a fantasy movie and more of a horror flick. The horror genre is extremely popular. My brother who absolutely DETESTS superhero fare, LOVES the Walking Dead. So do many other folks. And that's a post-apocalyptic horror television series that's proven to be wildly successful. Heck, practically any show and/or movie these days involving zombies seem to be hits (regardless of quality). So I agree with her approach to the Zatanna flick. The problem is that the Multiverse of Madness is gonna beat Zatanna to the punch!

I actually like how both DC Comics and Marvel Comics (from what I've heard) have been approaching magic lately. Magic having a price is an absolute MUST in MY opinion for any mystical story. Here's an article which basically shares my view on this matter:

https://mystorydoctor.com/the-price-of-magic/

From what I understand, Zatanna has been paying a HUGE price for her magic use lately in the comic books and from what I've read online, a lot of people are enjoying her appearances in Justice League Dark because of it.

yeah Zee fight against Upside Down Man when She pay a huge price and the effect still lingering on her is very well received. DCEU magic is still loosely explored, so maybe in Zatanna movie they can define it.

Yeah fun loving Zee is a must despite the dark side of magic she face and tragedies and trauma she experienced
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IMG_20210606_065756.jpg

[Albert1981]

yeah Zee fight against Upside Down Man when She pay a huge price and the effect still lingering on her is very well received. DCEU magic is still loosely explored, so maybe in Zatanna movie they can define it.

Yeah fun loving Zee is a must despite the dark side of magic she face and tragedies and trauma she experienced
IMG_20210606_065746.jpg
IMG_20210606_065756.jpg

I read about Upside Down Man. Sounds like he's a very compelling antagonist for Zatanna. But you wouldn't know it by what he calls himself. By making her magic use have costs, I think Zatanna has actually become an underdog in her fights with her opponents now. And I think that's really cool. I just hope things don't get too dark in the books she's in. I'm curious how DCEU magic is explored too. I actually like DC Comics magic more than Marvel Comics magic now. I enjoy MCU magic because it's grounded and hasn't headed into deus ex machina territory yet. Marvel Comics magic is a mess though. CBR published a pretty interesting article about Zatanna's magic recently:

https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-d...man-possessed/

[Gaius]

[Gaius]

[John Venus]

Best part of Dini's Zatanna run was that it was 100% Constantine free.

It will be VERY challenging. But I think it's easier to make magic consistent in a trio of movies than in superhero comic books which have characters who have existed in them for over half a century. I actually LIKE the MCU going with the "magic being pulled from different dimensions" idea. Even the whole notion of a "multiverse" is actually based on theories in physics. I've always considered Disney's Marvel magic to be very "science-y", if you get my meaning. Indeed, this article from several years ago makes the argument that Marvel Studios has been promoting the idea that magic in the MCU is just "science we don't understand yet.":

https://andphilosophy.com/2017/02/18...atic-universe/

I'm not sure if Feige and company have given up on that idea. I don't mind it personally. Magic being "science" we don't get definitely grounds it in a realistic way. But I imagine a lot of fantasy and magic fans would be pretty upset about that.

I know the DCEU has "sort of" introduced magic into its movies with Shazam! and the Wonder Woman films, but they didn't feel too "magic-y" to me. Zatanna should definitely change that. Emerald Fennell has mentioned how her script for Zatanna will be "scary and intense". That indicates to me that Zatanna will be less of a fantasy movie and more of a horror flick. The horror genre is extremely popular. My brother who absolutely DETESTS superhero fare, LOVES the Walking Dead. So do many other folks. And that's a post-apocalyptic horror television series that's proven to be wildly successful. Heck, practically any show and/or movie these days involving zombies seem to be hits (regardless of quality). So I agree with her approach to the Zatanna flick. The problem is that the Multiverse of Madness is gonna beat Zatanna to the punch!

I actually like how both DC Comics and Marvel Comics (from what I've heard) have been approaching magic lately. Magic having a price is an absolute MUST in MY opinion for any mystical story. Here's an article which basically shares my view on this matter:

https://mystorydoctor.com/the-price-of-magic/

From what I understand, Zatanna has been paying a HUGE price for her magic use lately in the comic books and from what I've read online, a lot of people are enjoying her appearances in Justice League Dark because of it.

I think Marvel was more ambiguous with their 'magic' during Phase One. IMO, the first Thor was closer to the OT Star Wars in that it was a mix of science and fantasy. The Asgardians had advanced technology but then you also had scenes like Odin enchanting the hammer and Loki's tricks which you can't really define as 'sci-fi'. Now you have Agatha as a full on witch who was almost executed for misusing her abilities and nobody blinks.

Shazam/Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are more mythological based characters than 'magician'. Their abilities were granted to them whereas someone like Zatanna, even though she was born with powers, she had to learn how to harness them.

05326299-613D-409D-BB84-17DA7284C837.jpg

I still want this movie

Yeah but I would adjust the line up. Get rid of Constantine, throw in Detective Chimp, Madame Xanadu, Dr Mist and maybe even Wonder Woman and I'm in.

[John Venus]

Zatanna and Cyborg from Infinite Crisis: Battle for the Multiverse:

[Robanker]

Best part of Dini's Zatanna run was that it was 100% Constantine free.

Truer words have yet to be spoken, backwards or otherwise.

[Edwin30]

Ok many people here think I want the opposite of a fun loving zatanna but that's not true. I just want Zatanna to be clever and use her brain more. I want a story where the final solution is more than just a spell. Paul's stories never made me feel like Zatanna worked hard for it.

Here's a short story by Ryan Cady from New Talent Showcase 2018. I think this should be a template for writing Zatanna stories.



One of the few stories where nothing is wrong with her powers and yet the story feels challenging. Her duty as an illusionist is to trick the audience/readers and that's what she does in this story. Also it has the best art in all of Zatanna's Solo stories.

Anyone who finds it hard to come up with stories for god like beings with reality bending powers should read this story.

[Albert1981]

Best part of Dini's Zatanna run was that it was 100% Constantine free.



I think Marvel was more ambiguous with their 'magic' during Phase One. IMO, the first Thor was closer to the OT Star Wars in that it was a mix of science and fantasy. The Asgardians had advanced technology but then you also had scenes like Odin enchanting the hammer and Loki's tricks which you can't really define as 'sci-fi'. Now you have Agatha as a full on witch who was almost executed for misusing her abilities and nobody blinks.

Shazam/Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are more mythological based characters than 'magician'. Their abilities were granted to them whereas someone like Zatanna, even though she was born with powers, she had to learn how to harness them.



Yeah but I would adjust the line up. Get rid of Constantine, throw in Detective Chimp, Madame Xanadu, Dr Mist and maybe even Wonder Woman and I'm in.

You're right. I agree with you about Phase One. I definitely thought Disney was treating magic like "science humans don't understand yet". Which is perfectly fine in my view. I mean, I thought Asgard looked more like a combination of Autobot City and Gondor than anything else for the first couple of Thor movies. It was funny to see Thor's hometown deploying artillery and using force fields against its enemies. I didn't consider Loki OR Wanda all that magical in their movies, to be honest. I often get mythological and magical characters mixed up. They definitely overlap, but yeah, there's definitely a distinction there.

To me, I'm just really surprised at how much DC connects HORROR and FANTASY together in their magical stories. I mean, DC magic is literally rooted in horror. I never got that impression with Marvel characters like Strange, Loki and Wanda. Even Marvel characters like Iron Fist, Blade, Ghost Rider and Moon Knight are more like "street level" characters to me than magical ones. To be honest, up until recently, I was NOT a big fan of comic book fantasy/horror stories. It just wasn't my thing. I never connected with those mystical stories in the past, even when I liked the characters (particularly Swamp Thing). But ever since I've heard that DC has been adopting the whole magic comes with a price thing, I've become WAY more interested. I think this magical policy is really "humanizing" magic users and adds a little more complexity for characters when they use magic (like the ones in Justice League Dark. I haven't read the books myself, but I've read glowing reviews about them). I don't really like the "grotesque and macabre" elements of the price of using magic, but I suppose it kinda comes with the territory. I just think it's weird that MARVEL STUDIOS is doing the whole horror thing (with the Multiverse of Madness) before DC releases its Zatanna movie. Strange and Wanda are totally stealing Zatanna's thunder here!!!

I didn't know so many Zatanna fans here disliked Constantine. This is news to me. I'm largely indifferent to that pairing. But you know how much I absolutely HATE characters being resurrected from the dead. But John's revival was more palatable to me than when Wanda brought back Simon at Marvel. Because Zatanna had to give up something to have him back (her dad). So I think Constantine being Zatanna's love interest works for that particular story:

https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-d...-zatara-death/

And the Studio Ghibli movies definitely prove that stories involving magic having heavy costs make for great films:

https://www.polygon.com/animation-ca...-moving-castle

[Gaius]

Truer words have yet to be spoken, backwards or otherwise.

Tseb tarp fo S'inid Annataz nur saw taht ti saw 001% Enitnatsnoc eerf.