Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-Man Appreciation 2021

[Kaitou D. Kid]

"First" and "Second" aren't cool codenames.

That is probably what the police calls them in-universe. The police differentiate anonymous characters like that all the time.

"Spider-Man" is the cool codename in-and-of-itself.

[Spiderfan001]

That is probably what the police calls them in-universe. The police differentiate anonymous characters like that all the time.

"Spider-Man" is the cool codename in-and-of-itself.

It's peter's codename.
Again if he's dead it makes sense, but when he is alive it's his.
A lot of people on youtube videos etc. also want for him to move away from the name.I put a link to the video on one of these threads as well.

[SecretWarrior]

That is probably what the police calls them in-universe. The police differentiate anonymous characters like that all the time.

"Spider-Man" is the cool codename in-and-of-itself.

Or they call them Spider-man and Black Spider-man, like Ken and Black Ken.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It's peter's codename.
Again if he's dead it makes sense, but when he is alive it's his.
A lot of people on youtube videos etc. also want for him to move away from the name.I put a link to the video on one of these threads as well.

It's Peter's codename, therefore it can't be shared? Even with his permission?

Or they call them Spider-man and Black Spider-man, like Ken and Black Ken.

Most people in 616 don't even know Miles' Spider-Man is black or don't pay attention to it. Real-life representation is different from how characters look at someone in-universe.

[Dragonick]

This name thing is ridiculous because it's only a problem in universe if a writer decides to make it that way, which they never do aside from an occasional throwaway joke. As far as adaptations go the only time it was a problem was the cartoons, two of which are terrible anyway and the third is for preschoolers. As opposed to the game and movie where they share the name nobody's confused and both are critically acclaimed, it's simply a matter of some writers not having faith in the intelligence of their audience which is a failing on their part not Miles. This is all to say it's only a problem if you choose to make it a problem which is more of a personal problem than anything else.

[Spiderfan001]

It's Peter's codename, therefore it can't be shared? Even with his permission?



Most people in 616 don't even know Miles' Spider-Man is black or don't pay attention to it. Real-life representation is different from how characters look at someone in-universe.

That what writers do.They make characters be happy about legacy ones and tell us how great they are.It's similar to a T.V. trope called "shilling the wesley".
They do this with most.Recently they did it with iron Fist in the most disrespectful and out of character way possible.
Iron Fist suddenly thinks he was never a good iron fist and doesn't want it.In matt fractions run(possibly the best and most iconic IF run) he states he doesn't like the idea he will be replaced.
Same way they said Thor's hammer never flew for him like it does for Jane.
Same way they had Miles deal with ultimate goblin and Blackheart with ease while humiliating Spider-man and all the avengers.
They need to tackle the og's with more respect, hard to root for the new ones when your favs get pushed down to make them look better.

Peter should say that if he ever dies Miles can take the mantle.

I don't think he should be Black Spider-man.Just seems backward.
People in universe(civilians) do know he is black.Miles doesn't like this and I understand why, that and he is half black.The other side of his heritage isn't acknowlegded.
Something like Shadow Spider seems the best route.Still a spider but something that is his own.

[Spiderfan001]

This name thing is ridiculous because it's only a problem in universe if a writer decides to make it that way, which they never do aside from an occasional throwaway joke. As far as adaptations go the only time it was a problem was the cartoons, two of which are terrible anyway and the third is for preschoolers. As opposed to the game and movie where they share the name nobody's confused and both are critically acclaimed, it's simply a matter of some writers not having faith in the intelligence of their audience which is a failing on their part not Miles. This is all to say it's only a problem if you choose to make it a problem which is more of a personal problem than anything else.

Again both being Spider-man makes no sense when both are alive and in the same universe(city as well).
That and they have secret identities, not like Logan or Clint.

Again to each their own but a lot of people do want him to move away from the Spider-man name and make something that is his own.

[Grimm911]

It's peter's codename.
Again if he's dead it makes sense, but when he is alive it's his.
A lot of people on youtube videos etc. also want for him to move away from the name.I put a link to the video on one of these threads as well.

Yeah, but those same people usually make the same argument that just doesn't make sense after a decade of making it and it going nowhere. They've been saying this either once Miles was introduced in the UU or when he joined Peter in the Main universe.

Miles is still Spider-Man with his own loyal fan base that keeps growing with newer generations of fans. Peter is still Spider-Man with his established fan base that won't shrink and will also grow with newer generations of fans.

Also the whole "but when he is alive it's his" thing is purely opinion, lets just call that what it is right now. You're welcomed to have that point of view and join in with people who share it but it's an opinion and not fact, creed, or law and there is just as many people online that disagree with this opinion as there are who do. And they too must understand that what they say is opinion and not fact.

I can't help but think some people mistake what is subjective opinion, for objective fact.

Also also, because I know this is brought up when discussing this, the whole Miles and Peter are too similar, point in the argument is ultimately the fault of the writers for them. Brian Michael Bendis is a great writer, but I feel he spent so much time with Peter in the UU that when he wrote Miles his mind couldn't switch from Peter to him in some ways. One best example of that is his constant reuse of Pete's rogue's gallery instead of giving Miles his own which is just now being rectified thanks to the amazing job Saladin has done with Miles and his character, and making him more distinct.

They try to say it's confusing have two Spider-Men at the same time but really how is it confusing? I genuinely want to know because you don't hear this kind of argument when dealing with the multiple green lantern's with secret identities like Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, and Simon Baz who all go by the same codename on earth.

It feels that those who say it's confusing without any evidence to back it up other than that being their opinions are using that as a cop out; that's how it feels to me anyway, again my opinion, not a fact. It's never once been confusing to me and other marvel writers for these characters have had some tongue and cheek fun writing in universe about there being two Spider-Men. Is this not really just some archaic point of view that never really had any legs to stand on in the first place?

If these arguments really had any water to tread than why, after 10 years, has Miles had a meteoric rise in popularity as Spider-Man, while Peter has always sat nicely on his throne as the O.G.?

[Tofali]

I thought I could avoid the talk of changing his codename in his own appreciation thread BUT then again every other conversation centered on Miles in this message board seems to be centered solely on this topic. This is just TIRESOME at this point.

[Nerwrax15]

"First" and "Second" aren't cool codenames.

Captain Stacy: "First, I need you to tackle the crowd on the bridge. Second, I need you to stop the Rhino."

First Spider-man: "Are those supposed to be sequential commands, or...?"

Second Spider-man: "If you call me Kid Arachnid, I'm going to hit you. I'm 18/21/28 now, and people were calling you a man at 15."

So now coolness is a factor now huh? Easy fix, One is Amazing and the other is Ultimate(a tag Miles honestly should have kept from his jump from 1610 to 616). Cool and practicial.

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah, but those same people usually make the same argument that just doesn't make sense after a decade of making it and it going nowhere. They've been saying this either once Miles was introduced in the UU or when he joined Peter in the Main universe.

Miles is still Spider-Man with his own loyal fan base that keeps growing with newer generations of fans. Peter is still Spider-Man with his established fan base that won't shrink and will also grow with newer generations of fans.

Also the whole "but when he is alive it's his" thing is purely opinion, lets just call that what it is right now. You're welcomed to have that point of view and join in with people who share it but it's an opinion and not fact, creed, or law and there is just as many people online that disagree with this opinion as there are who do. And they too must understand that what they say is opinion and not fact.

I can't help but think some people mistake what is subjective opinion, for objective fact.

Also also, because I know this is brought up when discussing this, the whole Miles and Peter are too similar, point in the argument is ultimately the fault of the writers for them. Brian Michael Bendis is a great writer, but I feel he spent so much time with Peter in the UU that when he wrote Miles his mind couldn't switch from Peter to him in some ways. One best example of that is his constant reuse of Pete's rogue's gallery instead of giving Miles his own which is just now being rectified thanks to the amazing job Saladin has done with Miles and his character, and making him more distinct.

They try to say it's confusing have two Spider-Men at the same time but really how is it confusing? I genuinely want to know because you don't hear this kind of argument when dealing with the multiple green lantern's with secret identities like Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, and Simon Baz who all go by the same codename on earth.

It feels that those who say it's confusing without any evidence to back it up other than that being their opinions are using that as a cop out; that's how it feels to me anyway, again my opinion, not a fact. It's never once been confusing to me and other marvel writers for these characters have had some tongue and cheek fun writing in universe about there being two Spider-Men. Is this not really just some archaic point of view that never really had any legs to stand on in the first place?

If these arguments really had any water to tread than why, after 10 years, has Miles had a meteoric rise in popularity as Spider-Man, while Peter has always sat nicely on his throne as the O.G.?

No.I mean people who feel he shouldn't call himself Spider-man in 616.It made perfect sense in 1610.

Of course.Most things said are opinions unless stated otherwise.

Just makes no sense to me.

Again secret identities.And green lantern was always meant to be a title, not a codename that was one person made.That's how it was always set up.
And both have another problem, the more Spiders we get the "random Spider-bite" looses it's value.Heck they even made it bite another person at the same time.Just feels cheap and cashgrab-ey making more versions of characters that are popular.

Multiple green lanterns are cool, but multiple human green lanterns are a bad choice imo.Specially since we should get one per sector by the green lanterns rules.
Then they made it two.Some got promoted.Now we have 6, 2 stationed on Earth.May have changed in recent years again.
The thing they did do right is that we only got 2 per sector.They introduced new ones by giving the others a promotion.Everyone had growth and it works.The Spiders are just jammed in, there's no structure to the Web.

Many people find it confusing.And Marvel says Spider-man and we assume Peter but sometimes we get Miles instead.Like in Cates Venom Run.I bought the issue for Spider-man cameo, it was Miles.And it's not like they are hiding this.The new Darkhawk issue 2 meets a "certain webslinger".There is a massive Spider-signal on the cover.That's Peter to me.But considering that he is a legacy character and one of color I feel they will go with Miles.If they do, just say so.

Because of his movie.Which has him set in another universe and the character is better than the one in comics by a mile.The game helped sustain said hype from Spider-verse.
That and Marvel is pushing him as hard as possible.

Again if Spider-man 2 is a Spider-men game there will be minor backlash and disappointment.In Miles's game Peter was lowballed to make Miles the hero and save the day.He has handled Rhino and scorpion in the past, but now can't take just him.Then sideline him.Again it's his game so I get it.But if they jam Miles into this game then I(and others) would be rightfully a bit angry.

Again he should be a part of it.But like how Peter was a part of Miles game or just a bit more.It should still be a Peter game.

[Nerwrax15]

It affects adaptations. Since Miles does not have his own name, a 3rd character talking to both while they're under the mask at the same time needs to be able to differentiate the two. Otherwise, Miles loses and is saddled with bad names like Kid Arachnid or Spin, which does not add cool points to his longevity card. There's a reason why when contestants with the same who go on game shows usually use their surname initial. For example, Ashley and Ben H. Vs Lauren and Ben C.

The Wolverines and Hawkeyes have public identities, so it's not an in-universe issue. Characters can just call them Logan, Laura, Clint, or Kate out in public.

Thats a bunch of nonsense because his 2 biggest adaptations, ITSV and Insomniac drive home the fact that Miles is Spider-Man and what that is suppose to mean. Yeah, i get why shows made FOR LITTLE KIDS might need to make the distinction, but teens and adults should be able to wrap their heads around the concept.

[Nerwrax15]

This name thing is ridiculous because it's only a problem in universe if a writer decides to make it that way, which they never do aside from an occasional throwaway joke. As far as adaptations go the only time it was a problem was the cartoons, two of which are terrible anyway and the third is for preschoolers. As opposed to the game and movie where they share the name nobody's confused and both are critically acclaimed, it's simply a matter of some writers not having faith in the intelligence of their audience which is a failing on their part not Miles. This is all to say it's only a problem if you choose to make it a problem which is more of a personal problem than anything else.

Oh, you beat me to it lol

[Kaitou D. Kid]

That what writers do.They make characters be happy about legacy ones and tell us how great they are.It's similar to a T.V. trope called "shilling the wesley".
They do this with most.Recently they did it with iron Fist in the most disrespectful and out of character way possible.
Iron Fist suddenly thinks he was never a good iron fist and doesn't want it.In matt fractions run(possibly the best and most iconic IF run) he states he doesn't like the idea he will be replaced.
Same way they said Thor's hammer never flew for him like it does for Jane.
Same way they had Miles deal with ultimate goblin and Blackheart with ease while humiliating Spider-man and all the avengers.
They need to tackle the og's with more respect, hard to root for the new ones when your favs get pushed down to make them look better.

Peter should say that if he ever dies Miles can take the mantle.

I don't think he should be Black Spider-man.Just seems backward.
People in universe(civilians) do know he is black.Miles doesn't like this and I understand why, that and he is half black.The other side of his heritage isn't acknowlegded.
Something like Shadow Spider seems the best route.Still a spider but something that is his own.

What recent evidence is there that Marvel is propping up Miles at Peter's expense? All your examples are from the Bendis era, which by your own admission is now bygone and Miles is a different character than the one from 10 years ago.

Insomniac Peter being taken out by Rhino once in his entire career isn't him being lowballed. Superheroes aren't like anime characters that have power levels. It's entirely possible for a B-list villain to get lucky and beat an A-list hero once in a while. Heck it happens in comics all the time, to Peter and many other heroes (even pre-Miles).

[Nerwrax15]

What recent evidence is there that Marvel is propping up Miles at Peter's expense? All your examples are from the Bendis era, which by your own admission is now bygone and Miles is a different character than the one from 10 years ago.

Insomniac Peter being taken out by Rhino once in his entire career isn't him being lowballed. Superheroes aren't like anime characters that have power levels. It's entirely possible for a B-list villain to get lucky and beat an A-list hero once in a while. Heck it happens in comics all the time, to Peter and many other heroes (even pre-Miles).

Yup, Miles in his own book has been taken down by missles, Hammerhead, and as silly as it sounds, getting an infection :P

Only matter of time before Frost Pharaoh gets his one win.

Seems like detractors often love to spotlight Miles successes just so they can blow up any "slights" on Peter as if "this has been the plan the whole time".