Peter Parker/Spider-Man Appreciation 2021.

[TheCape]

The story was all about Spidey and Natasha and the covers were lying about the team ups in two issues, the story's still alright, but it's because they "cheated", which's not necessarily bad 'cause a problem with MTU is how awkward and non-organic the team ups can feel, specially with Spidey being in almost all issues, 'cause, seriously, out of 150 issues, he's not in like, 5 of them... Anyways, the story being focused on Spidey and Natasha made it consistent, 'cause if it kept changing who Spidey was focusing with per issue, then it'd be bad.

I remember somebody saying that when it comes to team ups, Spider-Man is the equivalent of the town prostitute, everyone had a go with him at some point lol. At least the 90s ongoing took away all pretenses and called it Spider-Man team up lol.

Maybe a "Oh ****, this villain is using some device on me, if only there was a nerd dressed like a Spider nearby".

I'm almost sure than this was what happened, but i don't really remember, it was boring and Ben was sort of superfluous in the story, it really is more of a Silver Surfer tale, especially because it opens with Norrin visiting the grave of a friend that he met in his first solo. People told me that there were similar problems with the Superman/Spider-Man team up, there really isn't much that Peter can do to help him.

Also, i'm totally stealing that joke, because it made me laught a lot .

It's like someone giving you a pizza, then throws it at the ground and expects you to eat it, then offers you another pizza later and he thinks you won't expect that he'll throw another pizza on the ground lol.

All acording to Batlol's Keikaku .

So point is, at least she was the protagonist and punched Batlol in the face, so I'd consider that a win

Apparently her solo improved too, so it wasn't all bad.

What?

I guest that Scott Snyder forgot that Black Hand killing himself wasn't the only reason for why he could use the Black Ring. Althought i remember Hal becoming a Black Lantern at the end of Johns run when he was traped inside the Book Of Dead or something, so maybe Bruce did that too.

[Lukmendes]

If the Daydreamers issues was done in the moder era, i'm pretty sure that Peter's insecurities destroying the Marvel Universe would be his nihgtmares lol.

Guess he'd feel guilty about not doing more in practically every big event .

I remember somebody saying that when it comes to team ups, Spider-Man is the equivalent of the town prostitute, everyone had a go with him at some point lol. At least the 90s ongoing took away all pretenses and called it Spider-Man team up lol.

There's also the thing back then with "Spider-Man shows up in the third issue", which Byrne's She-Hulk run points out directly:



So yeah, he's really the town's bicycle lol.

I'm almost sure than this was what happened, but i don't really remember, it was boring and Ben was sort of superfluous in the story, it really is more of a Silver Surfer tale, especially because it opens with Norrin visiting the grave of a friend that he met in his first solo. People told me that there were similar problems with the Superman/Spider-Man team up, there really isn't much that Peter can do to help him.

Yeah the story can't always be about Spidey, but making him useless is pretty dumb.

That Spidey/Black Widow team-up, the main character isn't Spidey, it's Natasha, since the story is all about her struggles and she has a more personal confrontation with Viper, though Spidey is in no way useless, as he helps move the plot along and even saves Natasha a few times.

As for Supes/Spidey team ups, the first one had Spidey staying behind, fighting Lex and Otto and saving Lois/MJ while Supes saves the planet, and the second had Spidey removing Kryptonite from Supes, then Supes slowed down a reactor's explosion while Spidey tried to figure out how to turn it off.

Basically they both used a variation of "Supes does one thing while Spidey does another", and that's kinda the best way for Spidey to even manage to do anything, specially considering this was pre-crisis Supes, so Spidey can't help out much in combat, since Superman is far stronger and the first story in particular had to make up stuff for Supes to not fight properly for Spidey to even have a reason to be there, and Spidey definitely can't compete with him in intelligence lol.

At least he got to do stuff, Otto in the first one was completely redundant as a villain, since Lex basically did everything related to the plan while Otto wasn't even sure what the end goal was, then he learned that Luthor was going to destroy the planet and decided to fight against Luthor... Which's hilarious nowadays considering the "Ends of the Earth" bullshit Otto tried to pull lol.

The second crossover was better in how Spidey was used, since he got to fight Parasite, and Parasite stealing Spidey's power allowed him to realize that Doom was going to betray him since he still had the Spider-Sense, which started to screw up Doom's plan, so the first one is basically a Superman story where Spidey gets to make snarky comments along the ride, the second one, by using Doom as the main threat and having Parasite around, it made Spidey not be as redundant.

At the very least, the first crossover gives up the best moment in comic books:



Lex Luthor riding Doctor Octopus =D.

Otto is weirdly happy to be carrying another man...

Also, i'm totally stealing that joke, because it made me laught a lot =D.

Go ahead, I may quote your "BND is Marvel having a collective mid-life crisis" as a signature =D

All acording to Batlol's Keikaku :P.

If his keikaku is making sure I drop Dark Nights at around mid point and not even bother with the sequel, the congrats, he succeeded lol.

Apparently her solo improved too, so it wasn't all bad.

Her solo looked alright, but I laughed when I saw the setting, a character from Greek Mythology ending up in Asgard... I'm just waiting for her to meet Kratos while she's there :P.

I guest that Scott Snyder forgot that Black Hand killing himself wasn't the only reason for why he could use the Black Ring. Althought i remember Hal becoming a Black Lantern at the end of Johns run when he was traped inside the Book Of Dead or something, so maybe Bruce did that too.

I was just wondering about how the "Batman is death" nonsense happened lol.

[TheCape]

Guess he'd feel guilty about not doing more in practically every big event .



There's also the thing back then with "Spider-Man shows up in the third issue", which Byrne's She-Hulk run points out directly:



So yeah, he's really the town's bicycle lol.



Yeah the story can't always be about Spidey, but making him useless is pretty dumb.

That Spidey/Black Widow team-up, the main character isn't Spidey, it's Natasha, since the story is all about her struggles and she has a more personal confrontation with Viper, though Spidey is in no way useless, as he helps move the plot along and even saves Natasha a few times.

As for Supes/Spidey team ups, the first one had Spidey staying behind, fighting Lex and Otto and saving Lois/MJ while Supes saves the planet, and the second had Spidey removing Kryptonite from Supes, then Supes slowed down a reactor's explosion while Spidey tried to figure out how to turn it off.

Basically they both used a variation of "Supes does one thing while Spidey does another", and that's kinda the best way for Spidey to even manage to do anything, specially considering this was pre-crisis Supes, so Spidey can't help out much in combat, since Superman is far stronger and the first story in particular had to make up stuff for Supes to not fight properly for Spidey to even have a reason to be there, and Spidey definitely can't compete with him in intelligence lol.

At least he got to do stuff, Otto in the first one was completely redundant as a villain, since Lex basically did everything related to the plan while Otto wasn't even sure what the end goal was, then he learned that Luthor was going to destroy the planet and decided to fight against Luthor... Which's hilarious nowadays considering the "Ends of the Earth" bullshit Otto tried to pull lol.

The second crossover was better in how Spidey was used, since he got to fight Parasite, and Parasite stealing Spidey's power allowed him to realize that Doom was going to betray him since he still had the Spider-Sense, which started to screw up Doom's plan, so the first one is basically a Superman story where Spidey gets to make snarky comments along the ride, the second one, by using Doom as the main threat and having Parasite around, it made Spidey not be as redundant.

At the very least, the first crossover gives up the best moment in comic books:



Lex Luthor riding Doctor Octopus =D.

Otto is weirdly happy to be carrying another man...



Go ahead, I may quote your "BND is Marvel having a collective mid-life crisis" as a signature =D



If his keikaku is making sure I drop Dark Nights at around mid point and not even bother with the sequel, the congrats, he succeeded lol.



Her solo looked alright, but I laughed when I saw the setting, a character from Greek Mythology ending up in Asgard... I'm just waiting for her to meet Kratos while she's there :P.



I was just wondering about how the "Batman is death" nonsense happened lol.

"If i had helped Matt back in Born again, a demon wouldn't have possesed it"
"If i was more frienly to Jessica/Veranke, the Secret Invasion wouldn't have happened!"
"Phoenix was mad in Avenger vs X-Men because i was too annoying during my team-up mini with Logan"
"King in Black was all my fau-....wait they were already on earth?, why didn't you tell me sooner Eddie?!"

Lol, that She-Hulk solo looks fun, i should read it at some point, but there is still stuff from the 80s that i want to finish first, still Jeniffer knows what's up lol.

The true tragedy of that team up, there was no villanous bonding after that scene lol. But yeah, for what it sounds, is definetly the best way to write a team up beetween those two, i guest than that is how World's Finest was written with Batman and Supean considering how the gap of power was even bigger there (thanks for showing what issue did the slap came from thought lol). In contrast when DeMatteis wrote the Batman/Spider-Man croosover he focussed as always in their personal fears, because the two deal with similar type of threats, even if Bruce's Rogues are generally weaker that Peters. In the first story Bruce and Peter are having nightmare about Carnage and Joker and the whole debate if is better to just kill the two instead imprisoning then, just that is more sucessfull because Bats and Spidey stop then before their pile a big bodycount lol. Bruce was a bit of a bicth but that was the time when Batjerk was becoming his default charactherization, but he at least apoligized to Peter, i also like that Peter just told him off when he tried to pull that in their second encounter lol. The second story is more of a Kingpin vs Ra's Al Ghul fight, is a bit weird, the point was more about how far are you willing to go for the people that you love, but it feels like Bruce and Peter barely did anything, because it was Fisk who sabotaged Ra's plans, still the bodydisguise scene was fun.

The run didn't start with Diana having started a family there right .

There was some off-screen fight beetween Perpetua and the Justice League, beetween Snyder's final arc in JL and Death Metal's start, i think that the implication is that Bruce died there, because is not a plot point that is bring up much afterward.

[Lukmendes]

"If i had helped Matt back in Born again, a demon wouldn't have possesed it"

What demon? I don't remember any demon in Born Again lol.

"If i was more frienly to Jessica/Veranke, the Secret Invasion wouldn't have happened!"

What, would he try to romance Veranke then? :P.

"Phoenix was mad in Avenger vs X-Men because i was too annoying during my team-up mini with Logan"

I think being divided in 5 pissed off the Phoenix more lol.

"King in Black was all my fau-....wait they were already on earth?, why didn't you tell me sooner Eddie?!" :P

To be fair, it's weird Cates decided to use the logic that Spidey shouldn't feel guilty about symbiotes being on Earth since there were others already on it, because, King in Black only happened because of Absolute Carnage, and Absolute Carnage happened because too fucking many heroes and villains had a codex, and because Kletus had the Carnage symbiote once upon a time, so symbiotes being on Earth for thousands of years matters little, specially since the only detail that matters about older symbiotes being on Earth, that Knull used a dragon symbiote to learn of Earth, isn't mentioned, so there's no reason Spidey should stop feeling guilty, since, indirectly, everything happened because he brought the Venom symbiote to Earth.

Lol, that She-Hulk solo looks fun, i should read it at some point, but there is still stuff from the 80s that i want to finish first, still Jeniffer knows what's up lol.

From what I hear it's a fun run, yeah, one of those that define the character, in a good way in this case.

The true tragedy of that team up, there was no villanous bonding after that scene lol.

We had Luthor riding Otto, any further bonding wouldn't be allowed in comic books at the time .

But yeah, for what it sounds, is definetly the best way to write a team up beetween those two, i guest than that is how World's Finest was written with Batman and Supean considering how the gap of power was even bigger there (thanks for showing what issue did the slap came from thought lol).

Possibly, specially considering that Batman was a straight forward hero back then, so there wouldn't be that "Batman is willing to do shady **** Supes wouldn't", and I'm pretty sure the Batgod nonsense only started on the 90's.

In contrast when DeMatteis wrote the Batman/Spider-Man croosover he focussed as always in their personal fears, because the two deal with similar type of threats, even if Bruce's Rogues are generally weaker that Peters. In the first story Bruce and Peter are having nightmare about Carnage and Joker and the whole debate if is better to just kill the two instead imprisoning then, just that is more sucessfull because Bats and Spidey stop then before their pile a big bodycount lol.

That reminded me of Maximum Carnage, the crossover doesn't have a scene where Spidey said Carnage or Joker are the most innocent of all, right? .

Bruce was a bit of a bicth but that was the time when Batjerk was becoming his default charactherization, but he at least apoligized to Peter, i also like that Peter just told him off when he tried to pull that in their second encounter lol.

At least Peter reacted properly, 'cause him taking someone else's abuse for no reason is just weird lol.

The second story is more of a Kingpin vs Ra's Al Ghul fight, is a bit weird, the point was more about how far are you willing to go for the people that you love, but it feels like Bruce and Peter barely did anything, because it was Fisk who sabotaged Ra's plans, still the bodydisguise scene was fun.

What's the point of a team-up if the heroes don't do much? Lol.

The run didn't start with Diana having started a family there right :P.

That'd be difficult, since gets beheaded soon after it starts .

She gets better right away, y'know, Asgard resurrections and all, she also lost her memories so that explains why she dies so fast too.

There was some off-screen fight beetween Perpetua and the Justice League, beetween Snyder's final arc in JL and Death Metal's start, i think that the implication is that Bruce died there, because is not a plot point that is bring up much afterward.

I don't even know who Perpetua is, but a fight that gets Bruce killed off-screen is just bizarre lol.

[TheCape]

QUOTE]What demon? I don't remember any demon in Born Again lol[/QUOTE]

The joke is that Peter feels responsable for Shadowland because he didn't help Matt back in the 80s lol.

What, would he try to romance Veranke then? :P.

Well, that alien amazon really liked his butt in Hickman's Future Foundation run (or was his Fantastic Four run?) i'm sure that he has a good chance with a skrul. And hey, it would be a perfect storyline for BND Peter lol.

To be fair, it's weird Cates decided to use the logic that Spidey shouldn't feel guilty about symbiotes being on Earth

Yeah i know, i just wanted a different joke there, lets put it this way, Spidey feels guilty about stuff that is absolutely not his fault, but feels no remorse about the stuff that he is partially responsable for .

We had Luthor riding Otto, any further bonding wouldn't be allowed in comic books at the time

"It's guys love".

Possibly, specially considering that Batman was a straight forward hero back then, so there wouldn't be that "Batman is willing to do shady **** Supes wouldn't", and I'm pretty sure the Batgod nonsense only started on the 90's.

Batgod started with Morrison like a year later, but his run was about showing how badass and cool the JLA was, so it wasn't a big problem back then and the execution was decently belivable, like him using fire to beat the White Martians.

That reminded me of Maximum Carnage, the crossover doesn't have a scene where Spidey said Carnage or Joker are the most innocent of all, right?

Believe or not, Bruce actually references that story, calling it the "Maximum Carnage Incident", like in Superman/Spider-Man, the two universes were the same all along lol. Also, no, Joker is consider an insane bastard obssesed with his showmanship and Cletus is just a coward deep down whenever something that he can't kill appears.

At least Peter reacted properly, 'cause him taking someone else's abuse for no reason is just weird lol.

He does sort of take it in the first story when Bruce tell him to get out of the city, because Batman being a senior superhero (Spidey mentions that Bats had been doing this for longer than him), but then he stop a guy from killing a woman and decides to stay, then Bruce appears right after and apologizes for his behavior (Alfred make him reconsider) and the team-up properly start lol.

I don't even know who Perpetua is, but a fight that gets Bruce killed off-screen is just bizarre lol.

Perpetua is the creator of the DC multiverse that Snyder created, Barbatos was working for her and she is also the mother of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor lol. She is the big bad until Batlol remplaces her (classic Batman move ). Bruce dying doesn't matter much because all the the death get brought back after Death Metal anyway.

[Lukmendes]

The joke is that Peter feels responsable for Shadowland because he didn't help Matt back in the 80s lol.

Holy **** Spidey, this is ridiculous even by his standards lol.

Well, that alien amazon really liked his butt in Hickman's Future Foundation run (or was his Fantastic Four run?)

Probably was Fantastic Four's, 'cause I think Future Foundation had other characters.

i'm sure that he has a good chance with a skrul. And hey, it would be a perfect storyline for BND Peter lol.

I hate it that you're right.

Batgod started with Morrison like a year later, but his run was about showing how badass and cool the JLA was, so it wasn't a big problem back then and the execution was decently belivable, like him using fire to beat the White Martians.

Wouldn't say using a weak point to defeat godlike beings is that smart, but hey, it's something .

He does sort of take it in the first story when Bruce tell him to get out of the city, because Batman being a senior superhero (Spidey mentions that Bats had been doing this for longer than him), but then he stop a guy from killing a woman and decides to stay, then Bruce appears right after and apologizes for his behavior (Alfred make him reconsider) and the team-up properly start lol.

Sheesh, guess by the second story he just decided to not put up with Batman lol.

Perpetua is the creator of the DC multiverse that Snyder created, Barbatos was working for her and she is also the mother of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor lol.

Oh that sounds like a mess.

She related to the many useless Monitors we had pre-Flashpoint too?

She is the big bad until Batlol remplaces her (classic Batman move ).

To no one's surprise... Seriously, Batlol becoming such a huge threat, the question is "when" it'd happen, not "if" lol.

Bruce dying doesn't matter much because all the the death get brought back after Death Metal anyway.

Still sounds like something would use as a gimmick to increase sales, y'know, the short term gain method, so it's surprising it happened off-screen lol.

[TheCape]

Probably was Fantastic Four's, 'cause I think Future Foundation had other characters.

Bear in mind that the first few issues of Future Foundation were consider the actual Fantastic Four title until Johnny came back in #600, so it defenetly could have been there. Anyway, i had been a while since i read that run, but i remember that Peter didn't a lot under Hickman and yet it was still better than his time with the Avengers lol (not a hight bar but you know).

I hate it that you're right.

I can almost imagine the cover, we'll probably had Veranke disguise as a redhead even .

Sheesh, guess by the second story he just decided to not put up with Batman lol.

Spidey basically told him to get over himself and shake his hand like they did when the last one ended, Bruce even follow his advice in trying to be more friendly lol.

Oh that sounds like a mess.

She related to the many useless Monitors we had pre-Flashpoint too?

That's Snyder style for you. I think that at some point it was revealed that those monitors were just the original divided in 52 parts, so i guest that technically she is. If you are asking if she had anything to do with that mess, no she didn't star to directly intervene until Metal happened, before that she was a prisioner in the Source Wall.

Still sounds like something would use as a gimmick to increase sales, y'know, the short term gain method, so it's surprising it happened off-screen lol.

Sbyder had already killed Bruce in Endgame, so maybe he felt like not making a big deal of it this time lol. DC also pretty left him do whatever he wanted so he could get away with that lol.

[Lukmendes]

Bear in mind that the first few issues of Future Foundation were consider the actual Fantastic Four title until Johnny came back in #600, so it defenetly could have been there.

Ah, right, forgot F4 was temporarily cancelled for Future Foundation to come out.

Anyway, i had been a while since i read that run, but i remember that Peter didn't a lot under Hickman

What I speed read here had him doing basically nothing, he's not another brain on the team, he has one scene where he helps out emotionally, his powers didn't help much in fights...

It's honestly understandable, in a team where so many characters specialize in something, Spidey is too much of a jack of all trades to be of use consistently, but above all, can't have him doing too much either, but too bad what Hickman went for was basically "He's there".

and yet it was still better than his time with the Avengers lol (not a hight bar but you know).

Well, at least he's written in-character .

Also I found where the page is from:





(FF/Future Foundation#21 vol 1)

Wonder what Johnny means by "It's hard to tell without the right setup of mirrors".

I can almost imagine the cover, we'll probably had Veranke disguise as a redhead even :P.

Well, he almost dated a goddess that one time, guess a shape shifting alien queen could be another interesting love interest.

As long as aunt May doesn't find out, bad things happen with women Peter dates without her recommendation :P.

Spidey basically told him to get over himself and shake his hand like they did when the last one ended, Bruce even follow his advice in trying to be more friendly lol.

Bruce is kinda the kind of character who'll follow your advice if you're an ass to him but also right, so not surprised at that lol.

That's Snyder style for you. I think that at some point it was revealed that those monitors were just the original divided in 52 parts, so i guest that technically she is.

His IQ was probably divided in 52 parts too, would explain why they're all so useless.

If you are asking if she had anything to do with that mess, no she didn't star to directly intervene until Metal happened,

And here I was wondering if she was gonna be said to be the reason Flashpoint happened :P.

before that she was a prisioner in the Source Wall.

Ah right, the Source Wall was destroyed, wonder what happened after that lol.

Sbyder had already killed Bruce in Endgame, so maybe he felt like not making a big deal of it this time lol. DC also pretty left him do whatever he wanted so he could get away with that lol.

Well, he made an event that overwanks Batman even by Batwank standards, not surprising DC was gonna let him do whatever lol.

[Spiderfan001]

https://twitter.com/metrorazorola/st...01203168759811

Seen so much stuff like this on the TL, even for comic versions...

W/out Peter or the Spider-man name he'd be in the dust and yet these mf'ers can only think of this.Almost all of the Miles praise is just "Miles is better", haven't seen someone just praise Miles as a character in ages.Like people who like Peter and other characters on there post panels of comics/clips or smth, w/ Miles it's always comparisons lol

Wanda stans level toxicity, I regret ever going on twitter

Edit:- https://twitter.com/sansjuniperos/st...85209637494786

I just don't get it

[Lukmendes]

https://twitter.com/metrorazorola/st...01203168759811

Rage comics? Why does this low tier meme format refuse to die lol.

Seen so much stuff like this on the TL, even for comic versions...

W/out Peter or the Spider-man name he'd be in the dust and yet these mf'ers can only think of this.Almost all of the Miles praise is just "Miles is better", haven't seen someone just praise Miles as a character in ages.Like people who like Peter and other characters on there post panels of comics/clips or smth, w/ Miles it's always comparisons lol

Wanda stans level toxicity, I regret ever going on twitter

Edit:- https://twitter.com/sansjuniperos/st...85209637494786

I just don't get it

There are fans who are butthurt at whatever they like having some kind of competition, and Peter is Miles' competition, so they want Miles to be the better one between both, so they say "Miles is better", and hell, the second link you sent has someone saying "Peter is better" lol.

So yeah, just one of the many ways people can be obnoxious, I just learned to ignore those types.

[Spiderfan001]

Rage comics? Why does this low tier meme format refuse to die lol.



There are fans who are butthurt at whatever they like having some kind of competition, and Peter is Miles' competition, so they want Miles to be the better one between both, so they say "Miles is better", and hell, the second link you sent has someone saying "Peter is better" lol.

So yeah, just one of the many ways people can be obnoxious, I just learned to ignore those types.

I hate that format, it's way past time they forgot it

You're a wiser man than me, I might comment from time to time.But it's useless, time's just wasted

[Lukmendes]

You're a wiser man than me, I might comment from time to time.But it's useless, time's just wasted

Yeah it's complicated, ignoring those types of people can be better, but then you also have to be careful to not ignore too much otherwise you end up in an echo chamber if you go too far, so you basically end up becoming more like them, and that's bad.

Interactions and growing as a person are a pain, specially once you start to realize someone worded something in the worst possible way, but they're right, and agreeing with what they said, yeah, doesn't feel nice.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah it's complicated, ignoring those types of people can be better, but then you also have to be careful to not ignore too much otherwise you end up in an echo chamber if you go too far, so you basically end up becoming more like them, and that's bad.

Interactions and growing as a person are a pain, specially once you start to realize someone worded something in the worst possible way, but they're right, and agreeing with what they said, yeah, doesn't feel nice.

Generally wise points.

[TheCape]

Yeah it's complicated, ignoring those types of people can be better, but then you also have to be careful to not ignore too much otherwise you end up in an echo chamber if you go too far, so you basically end up becoming more like them, and that's bad.

Interactions and growing as a person are a pain, specially once you start to realize someone worded something in the worst possible way, but they're right, and agreeing with what they said, yeah, doesn't feel nice.

I learned that lesson very well in the Fate fandom, while is annoying to see some of the missinformation and weird takes, i did found at least a couple comments that offered some interesting perspectives, i didn't agreed with then but they did a pretty decent argument. So it was sort of an eye opener.

[Huntsman Spider]

I learned that lesson very well in the Fate fandom, while is annoying to see some of the missinformation and weird takes, i did found at least a couple comments that offered some interesting perspectives, i didn't agreed with then but they did a pretty decent argument. So it was sort of an eye opener.

As in Fate/stay night and its associated spinoffs?