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  1. #316
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    Should never have taken away her Binary levels and costume when she came back to Earth.

  2. #317
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Binary makes Carol more blasty, less punchy. Punchy is better, IMO
    Does not have to be less punchy. Carol as Binary was way stronger than now. She could be both Blasty and Punchy!
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  3. #318
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    He can, but he has more history and pathos with Tony than he does with Carol.

    Honestly, Carol seems to have the worst luck with regards to writers and the cast they stick her with. Arana, Sleepwalker, Alpha Flight are all good characters, but lousy foils, IMO. And Carol really ought to spend less time with Jess so that she had a supporting cast that actually reacts to her.
    Disagree on the part where Jess & Carol should spend less time together. Best written friendship in comics currently.

  4. #319
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    He can, but he has more history and pathos with Tony than he does with Carol.

    Honestly, Carol seems to have the worst luck with regards to writers and the cast they stick her with. Arana, Sleepwalker, Alpha Flight are all good characters, but lousy foils, IMO. And Carol really ought to spend less time with Jess so that she had a supporting cast that actually reacts to her.
    I disagree. Having Jess consistently there has been a good thing. As Shadowcat said, they have the best friendship in comics and it's a highlight of the current Captain Marvel run.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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  5. #320
    Oblio Kurt Busiek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Should never have taken away her Binary levels and costume when she came back to Earth.
    She'd probably still be in Limbo...

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  6. #321
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    She'd probably still be in Limbo...

    kdb
    From the guy who brought her back—nuff said.

  7. #322
    Oblio Kurt Busiek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    From the guy who brought her back—nuff said.
    I mean, we brought her back because we wanted to use her in interpersonal character drama in AVENGERS, and that interpersonal character drama was built on her dealing with particular problems, problems that grew out of her feeling broken and stressed, like she'd lost everything that mattered to her, including, as a final straw, the stars. So she turned to alcohol, which led to team issues and led to a connection to Tony, all of which gave us rich and engaging things to do.

    Plus, I liked the Warbird costume.

    The power change wasn't important because of her powers, primarily -- it was important because it set up all that character drama, and AVENGERS is (to my mind, anyway) a character drama book. And the Binary visual looks bad in the Warbird costume, and I think the Binary costume is functional but not all that interesting. And I dislike the name.

    So if she was to stay Binary, she'd have had no reason to feel broken and stressed and would have had the character drama she did that gave us interesting interactions I wanted to write. Plus, I may have been motivated by really liking the character when she was in AVENGERS (and her own book) in the 70s, but without that, I wouldn't have been as interested.

    So if that was the case, I'd have used someone else, someone I could do that kind of stuff with (and had a name I liked better).

    And from there, her being back in AVENGERS is what gave her enough of a spotlight that other writers started using her, that she got her own series again, and that she got turned into Captain Marvel and got a movie. Without AVENGERS, I don't know if that happens.

    It's certainly true that someone else could have brought her back, but she turned into Binary in 1982, and by 1998, 16 years later, she'd appeared as Binary less than 35 times, so it wasn't like other writers hadn't had a chance. They just weren't interested. Even Chris didn't use her very often.

    So my best guess: If we didn't want to use her in AVENGERS, she wouldn't have come back to Earth, and she'd still be making random appearances here and there, but no series, no movie.

    It was the character stuff that made me want to use her, and if she'd stayed Binary that character stuff doesn't happen.

    Of course, now that she's a headliner again, any time Marvel wants to hook her back up to some cosmic energy source, they can do it.

    I'm just glad I got to write her as Warbird, because even though the character arc we put her through wasn't comfortable for her, I really enjoyed writing it and putting her in the spotlight again.

    kdb
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  8. #323
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    I feel like the versatility of binary can be used more often.
    It's not just a big blasty power up.

    She could control and channel all the EM spectrum, gravity, anti-gravity (perhaps due the fact that a white hole is a singularity).
    Against the Phoenix she was able to negate its mass (as black holes can do, turn mass to energy) to channel it away with thor's help.
    Gravity control can also be used for pseudostrength like many gravity manipulators do.
    Control over all forms of EM radiation? I mean cmon, that's versatility that's underused.

    But I still like the base form. It effectively works the same as the binary form, just with no white hole power source, instead using ambient energy. So she could still absorb, channel and redirect stuff like electricity (and did so with Jessica's bioelectric blasts once), sunlight (red zone), whatever kang's sword of damocles energy source was when she blew it up.

    In busiek's avengers the narration stated that she still had the old capacity and wiring and her upper limit of energy absorption could be that of a Star (so I guess she could swallow a sun if she tried?)

    Plus it can lead to interesting team work, and her not being too strong means her enviroment and resourcefulness matters as well and her power level becomes more flexible allowing her to be using in more situations.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    I mean, we brought her back because we wanted to use her in interpersonal character drama in AVENGERS, and that interpersonal character drama was built on her dealing with particular problems, problems that grew out of her feeling broken and stressed, like she'd lost everything that mattered to her, including, as a final straw, the stars. So she turned to alcohol, which led to team issues and led to a connection to Tony, all of which gave us rich and engaging things to do.

    Plus, I liked the Warbird costume.

    The power change wasn't important because of her powers, primarily -- it was important because it set up all that character drama, and AVENGERS is (to my mind, anyway) a character drama book. And the Binary visual looks bad in the Warbird costume, and I think the Binary costume is functional but not all that interesting. And I dislike the name.

    So if she was to stay Binary, she'd have had no reason to feel broken and stressed and would have had the character drama she did that gave us interesting interactions I wanted to write. Plus, I may have been motivated by really liking the character when she was in AVENGERS (and her own book) in the 70s, but without that, I wouldn't have been as interested.

    So if that was the case, I'd have used someone else, someone I could do that kind of stuff with (and had a name I liked better).

    And from there, her being back in AVENGERS is what gave her enough of a spotlight that other writers started using her, that she got her own series again, and that she got turned into Captain Marvel and got a movie. Without AVENGERS, I don't know if that happens.

    It's certainly true that someone else could have brought her back, but she turned into Binary in 1982, and by 1998, 16 years later, she'd appeared as Binary less than 35 times, so it wasn't like other writers hadn't had a chance. They just weren't interested. Even Chris didn't use her very often.

    So my best guess: If we didn't want to use her in AVENGERS, she wouldn't have come back to Earth, and she'd still be making random appearances here and there, but no series, no movie.

    It was the character stuff that made me want to use her, and if she'd stayed Binary that character stuff doesn't happen.

    Of course, now that she's a headliner again, any time Marvel wants to hook her back up to some cosmic energy source, they can do it.

    I'm just glad I got to write her as Warbird, because even though the character arc we put her through wasn't comfortable for her, I really enjoyed writing it and putting her in the spotlight again.

    kdb
    Well as Binary she was stuck on the other side of the universe with the Starjammers...anyone could have brought her back as that at anytime but just didn't. Which is one of my complaints about characters being shuffled off to limbo. Replacing Thor on Avengers with Carol/Binary would have been interesting to me as she has a history with the team...as well as that here Binary power levels put her in Thor's power class. I think writers need to get a little more creative in using another character that may not have been shown love over the years in place of a 'big name' character.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 02-26-2021 at 05:25 AM.

  10. #325
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Well as Binary she was stuck on the other side of the universe with the Starjammers...anyone could have brought her back as that at anytime but just didn't. Which is one of my complaints about characters being shuffled off to limbo. Replacing Thor on Avengers with Carol/Binary would have been interesting to me as she has a history with the team...as well as that here Binary power levels put her in Thor's power class. I think writers need to get a little more creative in using another character that may not have been shown love over the years in place of a 'big name' character.
    Hercules was on the team for a large period of the time Binary was in space.

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Hercules was on the team for a large period of the time Binary was in space.
    Yeah, the heavy hitters are usually punchy guys. You can throw them at mooks for countless panels. Thor can whip the crap out of a mob of Hydra, but he's gotta get to them all first

  12. #327
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    I disagree. Having Jess consistently there has been a good thing. As Shadowcat said, they have the best friendship in comics and it's a highlight of the current Captain Marvel run.
    I agree that it isn't so much the friendship itself that is the problem, just that more consistency with Carol's relationships outside of it would be nice to have.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    I feel like the versatility of binary can be used more often.
    It's not just a big blasty power up.

    She could control and channel all the EM spectrum, gravity, anti-gravity (perhaps due the fact that a white hole is a singularity).
    Against the Phoenix she was able to negate its mass (as black holes can do, turn mass to energy) to channel it away with thor's help.
    Gravity control can also be used for pseudostrength like many gravity manipulators do.
    Control over all forms of EM radiation? I mean cmon, that's versatility that's underused.

    But I still like the base form. It effectively works the same as the binary form, just with no white hole power source, instead using ambient energy. So she could still absorb, channel and redirect stuff like electricity (and did so with Jessica's bioelectric blasts once), sunlight (red zone), whatever kang's sword of damocles energy source was when she blew it up.

    In busiek's avengers the narration stated that she still had the old capacity and wiring and her upper limit of energy absorption could be that of a Star (so I guess she could swallow a sun if she tried?)

    Plus it can lead to interesting team work, and her not being too strong means her enviroment and resourcefulness matters as well and her power level becomes more flexible allowing her to be using in more situations.
    Definitely always wanted more of her versatility displayed. I think she kept all her Binary powers when she lost Binary it’s just the level of her powers were severely dropped if I’m not wrong and she lost the ability to stay in space until she got binary back in Reed’s run.

    I’m pretty sure she was doing some of that insane versatility stuff in KSD’s first run on the character when she was time displaced.

    Regardless I definitely want to see more Electro-Magnetic spectrum stuff

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Hercules was on the team for a large period of the time Binary was in space.
    Yeah...but Herc is generally just the team strong man...Thor has Mjolnir and storm and lightening as well. That is why I would say Binary could be swapped out for Thor.

  15. #330

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