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  1. #2041

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Ah, I sees...what?

    The Green Door always being there works, when one considers how many times Hulk has come back to life. Long before every hero and villain did it, and came back from actual death. Like The Leader and others.
    There was no precedence for it. I know that many gamma irradiated beings died and returned to life, but claiming that they saw a green door was a little out of left field for me. No other writer set it up that I know of.

    Hulk was never an avatar for the One Below All until issue 25. He was a foil, not an avatar.
    What book did you read, he was described as the righteous anger of God. An angel...for the One Above All's lower self, the One Below All.

    How exactly did did Ewing change Rebecca Banner? She was in an abusive relationship with an abusive man, that's what Ewing showed and gave us.

    And yeah, nothing about Hulk is scientifically sound

    I do agree that the ending was either rushed or lacking, though
    As I stated above, he took Rebecca Banner, who was always portrayed as the angelic, concerned, protective mother and turned her into an alcoholic. A far cry from how Mantlo, David and Pak wrote her. She was completely out of character.

    Marvel Comics, in general, since the 90's have been chaos. This story was just another example of how creative liscence can go wrong.
    "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk could have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!" - Tales to Astonish #63

  2. #2042
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma Irradiated Being View Post

    There was no precedence for it. I know that many gamma irradiated beings died and returned to life, but claiming that they saw a green door was a little out of left field for me. No other writer set it up that I know of.



    What book did you read, he was described as the righteous anger of God. An angel...for the One Above All's lower self, the One Below All.



    As I stated above, he took Rebecca Banner, who was always portrayed as the angelic, concerned, protective mother and turned her into an alcoholic. A far cry from how Mantlo, David and Pak wrote her. She was completely out of character.

    Marvel Comics, in general, since the 90's have been chaos. This story was just another example of how creative liscence can go wrong.
    This is such a weird criticism because why would it be ok for another writer to do it but not Ewing? Unles those writers were Stan and Jack, anyone else coming up with the concept wouldíve been inventing something that was not intended by Hulkís original creators. Why is it not ok to invent the Green Door but you donít seem to have a problem with Bruceís multiple personality disorder, the Hulk transformation being triggered by rage, or Hulk having green skin, all elements of the character that we all agree are iconic to him, but werenít there at the start? Yes Ewing invented stuff, every writer does. Thatís part of the gig.
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  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma Irradiated Being View Post
    In Cates run, it's mentioned that Banner mentality put his mind back to three distinct personalities. I'm betting we're going back to the basics probably the "Psychological Ramifications of Gamma Radiation" story from issue #393. All these unnecessary incarnations seem to be gone. Good riddance.
    He fractured his mind into 3 parts, not personalities and there is no way Cates has done away with any personality. The guy was afraid to take away even Hulks immortality when the main promotional tag for his new run was "IMMORTAL NO MORE!".

  4. #2044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    This is such a weird criticism because why would it be ok for another writer to do it but not Ewing? Unles those writers were Stan and Jack, anyone else coming up with the concept would’ve been inventing something that was not intended by Hulk’s original creators. Why is it not ok to invent the Green Door but you don’t seem to have a problem with Bruce’s multiple personality disorder, the Hulk transformation being triggered by rage, or Hulk having green skin, all elements of the character that we all agree are iconic to him, but weren’t there at the start? Yes Ewing invented stuff, every writer does. That’s part of the gig.
    All this.Why does Ewing creating newer elements make him different/worse than all the others who did the same thing.

  5. #2045
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    Adding new stuff to Hulk is almost never a bad thing, because(and this is coming from one of the biggest Hulk fanboys out there) there is barely much there. In terms of lore and depth before Ewing Hulk was only scratching the surface. People talk crap about Ewing adding all this meta narrative about god and devil, but look a simple character like Flash. He used to be very similar to Hulk, basically a guy in a science experiment gone wrong, that was it, there was no depth to it, he got splashed by some chemical and all of a sudden he is super fast and look at him now with all the speed force, and still force and strength force, etc... and how it all ties into the multiverse and time travel, etc...

    Even if you do not like all the stuff Ewing added to the Hulk at least be appreciative that most people OUTSIDE of Hulk fanbase viewed the character as very simple/boring, basically a dumb, rage monster for the most part. Ewing changed that in a big way, he added depth to a character no one ever knew the character was capable of. It put Hulk on the map in terms of a lot of other writers wanting to do their stories on him.

  6. #2046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Adding new stuff to Hulk is almost never a bad thing, because(and this is coming from one of the biggest Hulk fanboys out there) there is barely much there. In terms of lore and depth before Ewing Hulk was only scratching the surface. People talk crap about Ewing adding all this meta narrative about god and devil, but look a simple character like Flash. He used to be very similar to Hulk, basically a guy in a science experiment gone wrong, that was it, there was no depth to it, he got splashed by some chemical and all of a sudden he is super fast and look at him now with all the speed force, and still force and strength force, etc... and how it all ties into the multiverse and time travel, etc...

    Even if you do not like all the stuff Ewing added to the Hulk at least be appreciative that most people OUTSIDE of Hulk fanbase viewed the character as very simple/boring, basically a dumb, rage monster for the most part. Ewing changed that in a big way, he added depth to a character no one ever knew the character was capable of. It put Hulk on the map in terms of a lot of other writers wanting to do their stories on him.
    I feel it's not just about adding stuff but diection.Spider-man's Web and multiversal stuff is disliked amongst most and for good reason.Whereas it works w/ the Flash for most.

    Hulk is a 50/50 for me.I still don't know how I feel about Ewing's stuff in the grand scale of things but his execution was amazing and it's worked for his run.

  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I feel it's not just about adding stuff but diection.Spider-man's Web and multiversal stuff is disliked amongst most and for good reason.Whereas it works w/ the Flash for most.

    Hulk is a 50/50 for me.I still don't know how I feel about Ewing's stuff in the grand scale of things but his execution was amazing and it's worked for his run.
    It's entirely about the direction of what is being added. Remember when John Byrne tried to expand on Hulks origin by saying he was literally made by the Skrulls? That change was hated so much that it was immediately dropped, hell even Peter David himself who was writing Captain Marvel at the same time literally threw shade at and make fun of it in his comic. Or remember when Mark Waid almost had Tony Stark being mostly or partially responsible for Hulks creation? The backslash was so big he had to literally try and explain himself in the comic and make sure Bruce himself has a line where he directly says to Tony"you have nothing to do with creating the Hulk". So yea it all depends on whats being changed and how.

    IMO the changes Ewing brought on are not only great they feel like the logical evolution of Hulks lore. This relationship of man and Hulk being like that of God and devil, Hulk being our shadow self, that flows so well with the hard and opens up a huge door to explore it on a thematical and psychological level. Although i dunno if anyone after Al will be able to explore it to such a degree. I do keep hearing a lot how Cates is pretty good at writing psychological stuff, particularly characters grasping with depression, so maybe he has something in plan later on once he gets all the "bombastic" stuff out of the way. Which he tends to do for the first arc of almost every run i see him write, he did the same with Thor where the first 6 issues was just Thor fighting Galactus and Black Winter and just constantly powering up like a Dragon Ball Z character and after that he dove into some more personal issues. So we will see what he ends up doing with Banner and Hulk.

  8. #2048
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Villanous Banner who antagonizes Savage soon after IH's ending... Yeah, not a good start.

    That start will likely age a bit better years afterwards, when the beginning of it won't be as associated with Immortal Hulk, at least.

    It's interesting Strange mentions that magic was used for Banner's mind to become that "Starship", Cates is still keeping that attribute from Immortal Hulk in mind.

    Either way, mad villain Banner is kinda whatever to me, and aside from that, not much else to say about this issue since it's just setting up something else.



    Yeah, he even died partially because he didn't try to fight back against Savage.

    If Devil is going to take the blame for Banner's current actions, then it goes against what was shown of him before, unless the merge picks Devil's and Banner's worst traits... But then again, there's a page post death where Devil talks like he's separated from Banner lol.

    Oh well, right now I'm just wondering what's up with Fixit, will the Cosmic Ray power Hulk be used? And will we ever learn what the hell happened with Professor and Green Scar? Ewing only referenced them, but they disappeared, with no explanation given lol.

    Devil kind of started as antagonistic to Banner and the other Hulks during Jenkin's run, strangely enough. The characterization of him in IH was radically different. Ewing sort of wrote this off as Banner's mind kind of playing tricks on him, I think to explain the differences.

    In fact if you check wikipedia's Devil Hulk page the second picture is him being restrained by savage and Joe while kind of spouting villainous dialogue.
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  9. #2049
    Incredible Member Webhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Adding new stuff to Hulk is almost never a bad thing, because(and this is coming from one of the biggest Hulk fanboys out there) there is barely much there. In terms of lore and depth before Ewing Hulk was only scratching the surface. People talk crap about Ewing adding all this meta narrative about god and devil, but look a simple character like Flash. He used to be very similar to Hulk, basically a guy in a science experiment gone wrong, that was it, there was no depth to it, he got splashed by some chemical and all of a sudden he is super fast and look at him now with all the speed force, and still force and strength force, etc... and how it all ties into the multiverse and time travel, etc...

    Even if you do not like all the stuff Ewing added to the Hulk at least be appreciative that most people OUTSIDE of Hulk fanbase viewed the character as very simple/boring, basically a dumb, rage monster for the most part. Ewing changed that in a big way, he added depth to a character no one ever knew the character was capable of. It put Hulk on the map in terms of a lot of other writers wanting to do their stories on him.
    Agreed on most counts. The character's very flexible and while writers can mess up it does lend itself to interesting stuff, and even if the status quo does snap back it tends to take longer to do so.

  10. #2050
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    The beauty of Ewing’s run is that it can be took completely stand alone, should you wish.

  11. #2051
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    The beauty of Ewing’s run is that it can be took completely stand alone, should you wish.
    And it will stand completely alone, for some of us. It's the Final Finale, for me. It was a great ride, better than other forms of entertainment during those 3 years.

  12. #2052
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    The beauty of Ewing’s run is that it can be took completely stand alone, should you wish.
    Exactly, there are a few references here and there, but this in an omnibus format is basically a coda for the Hulk

  13. #2053

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    This is such a weird criticism because why would it be ok for another writer to do it but not Ewing? Unles those writers were Stan and Jack, anyone else coming up with the concept would’ve been inventing something that was not intended by Hulk’s original creators. Why is it not ok to invent the Green Door but you don’t seem to have a problem with Bruce’s multiple personality disorder, the Hulk transformation being triggered by rage, or Hulk having green skin, all elements of the character that we all agree are iconic to him, but weren’t there at the start? Yes Ewing invented stuff, every writer does. That’s part of the gig.
    My initial point was that it felt forced. It didn't play out smoothly.
    "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk could have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!" - Tales to Astonish #63

  14. #2054

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    He fractured his mind into 3 parts, not personalities and there is no way Cates has done away with any personality. The guy was afraid to take away even Hulks immortality when the main promotional tag for his new run was "IMMORTAL NO MORE!".
    In the story, Cates states Banner rebuilt, then split his psyche into three distinct parts. The psyche by definition is the mind and in Freudian Psychology and Hulk lore it consists of a Superego, Ego and Id.
    "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk could have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!" - Tales to Astonish #63

  15. #2055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma Irradiated Being View Post
    In the story, Cates states Banner rebuilt, then split his psyche into three distinct parts. The psyche by definition is the mind and in Freudian Psychology and Hulk lore it consists of a Superego, Ego and Id.
    This does not mean he "killed off" Devil, by this logic he killed off every other alter which obviously isn't the case. I mean i am not the biggest Cates fan as everyone knows here but not even Cates would pull off something that dumb, let alone handle it off screen. Imagine killing off Devil, Joe Fixit, Green Scar offscreen and not even treat it as a big deal. I think you are reading this completely wrong. Those alters are clearly dormant, not sure if they will appear in Cates run but they are certainly not dead.

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