Bruce Banner - The Hulk Appreciation 2021

[Intothevoid]

Can't wait to see what the hell Joe and Hulk are going to do against that Leader/TOBA!

I don't think they are or even can do much, i think this is where Devil Hulk makes a comeback, now it would be nice to also see Green Scar and Professor Hulk as well, but i dunno if that is realistic here. At the same time even if Devil makes a comeback which i am 90% sure he will, how the hell does he defeat Leader who has the power of TOBA? Like first time you can kinda argue he got lucky, caught them off guard but even that was kinda pushing it a lot considering how powerful TOBA is meant to be Hulk should be a spec of dust to him in comparison but i guess we will see.

[Kingkalamari]

I would bet a combined effort of Jackie and Shaman could use Rick and Del to harm Leader somehow, esp with Shaman there too. Maybe they could hack into the backdoor Leader has been using to help out.

[Jness]

Just chiming in to say that I *loved* the "It's not right" discussion and the unexpected turn that took. =)

[Intothevoid]

Joe Bennett posted more stuff on instagram and wow... it looks like something big is coming when Ewing is pulling characters from all over.

[kalai]

I don't think they will defeat OBA in the end, it's probably something more like reconcile with your Hulk within.
It's a metaphor for Bruce when he began to create a whole system for the hulks.
So OAA will probably shake hands with OBA in the way Great Evil Beast and The Presence did in Swamp Thing.
But why would OBA use Leader as a vessel at all when Bruce is clearly the better host.

[Immortal Hulk]

This is gonna be a hell of a battle.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

So I just finished reading, The Incredible Hulk 300 by Bill Mantlo. Is his entire run this good? Because that issue was absolutely fantastic!!! Probably my favorite single issue of a comic that I have read in awhile.

Overall, it's a solid run. There are some stinkers, not every issue is perfect of course. I break it up into 3 parts/eras - #245-271 with savage Hulk stories, #272-300 for the Banner in Control stories, and #301-313 for the mindless Hulk/Crossroads.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Incredible Hulk #309
“The Triad!”

Cover Date: July 1985
Sale Date: April 9th, 1985
Writer: Bill Mantlo
Artist: Sal Buscema
Inker: Gerry Talaoc
Letterer: John Workman
Colorist: Bob Sharen
Editor: Carl Potts
Guest Stars/Supporting Cast: The Triad
Synopsis: The three mysterious beings, Guardian, Goblin and Glow, calling themselves the Triad, introduce themselves to the Hulk. We’re treated to the obligatory recap and another splash of the Hulk’s history and the Hulk eagerness to go home. An unspecified amount of time later, the Hulk and Triad stand in front of a portal and something triggers the Hulk to enter a portal that leads to a desert world. Goblin proves to be an annoyance to the Hulk and he leaps away in hopes of escaping them to no avail. The heat begins to have an effect on the brute, but he does not trigger the Fail-Safe yet. Hours pass and a severely dehydrated Hulk is still intent on walking across this desert. He protects the Triad from a sandstorm and eventually leads them to a body of water with food for all.
Commentary: Sal Buscema bows out after nearly ten years on the book. According to Sal in his TwoMorrows biography book, he and Bill had a very heated disagreement between about how he should draw a splash page. Sal then called up his editor and said he was done. (Soon after, Mantlo would start bad-mouthing Sal in the fanzines as a “hack” and offering very “uninspiring art”, so my respect for Mantlo has dropped another few notches.) All in all, I think Mantlo was getting burned out on the title, and it was starting to show. It’s been 9 months of mindless Hulk stories with the main character offering nothing but several “RARGH!” a page. In an interview with Amazing Heroes a few months later, he explained what he intended to finish up his run with – and it wasn’t very Hulkish. (It was loosely finished up in Rom with the Rick Jones cancer storyline). I consider this issue one of the weakest of the Crossroads stories, too much psychobabble between the Triad and the Hulk seemed to take a back seat in his own title. Plus, it wasn’t a very action-packed issue for Sal to end his tenure on.

[Kingkalamari]

I don't think they will defeat OBA in the end, it's probably something more like reconcile with your Hulk within.
It's a metaphor for Bruce when he began to create a whole system for the hulks.
So OAA will probably shake hands with OBA in the way Great Evil Beast and The Presence did in Swamp Thing.
But why would OBA use Leader as a vessel at all when Bruce is clearly the better host.

Leader has the knowledge of the next universe where OBA succeeds in it's plan.

I also assume you have to be like willing to serve it too, Brian and Leader both offered themselves to serve it (though Brian did so in desperation to escape) and I dont see Banner willing to do that anytime soon.

[Bad Witch]

I just got through trade paper back 7 or immortal hulk and my jaw is on the floor. My god!!!

[80sForever]

Shower thought: The "rogue's gallery" trope that heroes have to have specific villains is a product of the the Golden and Silver Ages, and is outdated.

The Leader spent his entire career only terrorizing The Hulk until he started to branch out in The Intelligencia, but even that was still in Hulkverse.

If Hulk was strength personified due to the gamma rays, and Leader is intelligence personified, I think he ought to have been more of a universal threat, appearing in other titles.

I know why it's a trope and sometimes it doesn't work to switch villains (like when Byrne had Superman vs Joker), but, still...

[Vordan]

Shower thought: The "rogue's gallery" trope that heroes have to have specific villains is a product of the the Golden and Silver Ages, and is outdated.

The Leader spent his entire career only terrorizing The Hulk until he started to branch out in The Intelligencia, but even that was still in Hulkverse.

If Hulk was strength personified due to the gamma rays, and Leader is intelligence personified, I think he ought to have been more of a universal threat, appearing in other titles.

I know why it's a trope and sometimes it doesn't work to switch villains (like when Byrne had Superman vs Joker), but, still...

Strongly disagree. Villains aren’t interchangeable, they acquire development when they’re cast against a specific hero. It’s fine for Leader or Osborn to occasionally threaten the universe as a whole, but a villain isn’t going to be able to act as a good foil to everyone equally. MCU Thanos for example was basically a foil for Tony even as he threatened everyone. Kingpin started out tangling with Spider-Man, but he’s never been as great a villain with Spidey as he has with Daredevil imo.

A Rogues Gallery allows you to take villains and build them in opposition to specific heroes. It allows for meaningful contrast and long term development because the villains are going to be butting heads frequently with specific heroes in ways that will coax interesting interactions with each. Against any other hero Leader is just a smart villain. But against Hulk specifically he’s an interesting contrast in the way gamma affects people, he contrasts with Bruce specifically in that Sterns wants to be irradiated and hates being “normal”, and in Immortal Hulk the two contrast with each other in their relationship with the OBA.

[Hypestyle]

Shower thought: The "rogue's gallery" trope that heroes have to have specific villains is a product of the the Golden and Silver Ages, and is outdated.

The Leader spent his entire career only terrorizing The Hulk until he started to branch out in The Intelligencia, but even that was still in Hulkverse.

If Hulk was strength personified due to the gamma rays, and Leader is intelligence personified, I think he ought to have been more of a universal threat, appearing in other titles.

I know why it's a trope and sometimes it doesn't work to switch villains (like when Byrne had Superman vs Joker), but, still...

seems like he could have been a recurring Avengers villain, as either the main threat or the leader of a team. Defenders, too..

how many writers wanted to use him over the decades? How rigid was Hulk editorial about "loaning" the Leader for other non-Hulk title (or non-Hulk solo) appearances?

[Intothevoid]

Nah i agree, someone like Leader logically should be a villain that appears from time to time in an Avengers comic or a F4 comic or headlines certain events, etc... It just logically makes sense, the problem is a lot of this is driven by popularity, Leader is arguably as smart as Doom, so he can potentially be as much of a threat as Doom and Doom has threatened the entire Marvel multiverse more than once, but he simply isn't as popular as Doom. I understand perfectly well that Leader works BEST as Hulks opposite archetype, as the smartest one there is to Hulks strongest one there is shtick and there is a lot of personal stuff between the 2, but that doesn't mean he can't be used well elsewhere, all of this literally depends on the writers, if the writer puts in effort and cares about it. Given Leaders genius coupled with his ambitions it just doesn't make sense and is usually a disservice to what should otherwise be a very dangerous and capable villain.

Even if you disagree with him appearing as the main baddy in other books, you can't deny that he has certainly been underused and when he does appear in other books he has been treated as mostly a joke. Ewing actually spoke about this in an interview he did where he said he was afraid of using Leader as one of the main villains in IH at first because he was treated as goof for a long time and wasn't sure if people could take him seriously.

[Immortal Hulk]

Nah i agree, someone like Leader logically should be a villain that appears from time to time in an Avengers comic or a F4 comic or headlines certain events, etc... It just logically makes sense, the problem is a lot of this is driven by popularity, Leader is arguably as smart as Doom, so he can potentially be as much of a threat as Doom and Doom has threatened the entire Marvel multiverse more than once, but he simply isn't as popular as Doom. I understand perfectly well that Leader works BEST as Hulks opposite archetype, as the smartest one there is to Hulks strongest one there is shtick and there is a lot of personal stuff between the 2, but that doesn't mean he can't be used well elsewhere, all of this literally depends on the writers, if the writer puts in effort and cares about it. Given Leaders genius coupled with his ambitions it just doesn't make sense and is usually a disservice to what should otherwise be a very dangerous and capable villain.

Even if you disagree with him appearing as the main baddy in other books, you can't deny that he has certainly been underused and when he does appear in other books he has been treated as mostly a joke. Ewing actually spoke about this in an interview he did where he said he was afraid of using Leader as one of the main villains in IH at first because he was treated as goof for a long time and wasn't sure if people could take him seriously.

Couldn't agree more.