Bruce Banner - The Hulk Appreciation 2021

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Yeah I wasn't a fan of the art as well and I'm generally good with everyone, especially indy artists.

In the shot above, I'll admit I like the trenchcoat shot and the close up (I think it's the shadows that helps Purves art).. but I have Purves as one of the worst Hulk artists of all time personally.

He looks like the Toxic Avenger and everyone's eyes are all spaced too far apart which I think is one of the problems I had. The other is there's almost no background work at all.

EDIT:
Now that I think of it, the coloring seems off as well. That cover is awful, as if rushed and the page generally is flat, the one where shades are varied/shadowing works for me... it may be that Purves art is just flat looking and doesn't lend itself or that the colorist didn't mesh well. (Checking now, it was a new colorist as well)

Interior colors had been done by Petra Scotese since issue #325. Not sure if she did the covers as well. Some time during this run she leaves and I believe it was stated she retired from comics. Have to find that letters page mention...
The coloring process around this time were really hit and miss. Not sure if it was the paper or whatever new process was being used, but in the upcoming Web of Spider-Man crossover, BLARGH! What a **** show!

***EDIT***
Found it in the letter column in issue #355. She didn't retire, she bought a boat and sailed the ocean for a while. Honestly do not know if she came back after that or not.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

I can remember not really caring for the art in these arcs myself. I liked McFarlane's art. And I could follow the stories leading up to the big blow-up... but then... Vegas? Hulk as kind-of a leg-breaker for a Mob-adjacent casino owner? Punching out easy-mark humans? eh..
At the time I didn't read enough into it to figure out that Marlo was "sleeping" with, er, "Joe".. I had largely stopped buying the issues so I didn't know at first about the angle of Joe telling the lie that "Bruce" was his (much smaller, wimpier) "Brother" who only showed up in the daytime.. lol.. I don't recall too many traditional Hulk-villains showing up, either.. which of course was on purpose, I guess.. since this was supposed to be a big secret that the big gray guy was not "the Hulk". (also at the time I knew nothing about the "gangster" personality glimpsed in the earliest Stan Lee comics)

PAD said it was flip on the Banner/Hulk dynamic. For 20+ years, it was the Hulk ruining Banner's life. Well, let's have the Hulk doing something he likes and have Banner be the one to ruin it -- and that's what eventually happens.
Amazing Heroes #175 had a lengthly interview with him and he originally pitched the idea of the setting being in Chicago, but Bob Harras suggested Las Vegas and the wheels started turning. I was torn between not having super villains in this run because the Banner/Marlo/Hulk was an ongoing thing, but it would have been nicer to see a few more pop up.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

This is fascinating - Without the internet in 1988, all we fans could do was rely on (accurate?) letter page fan response.

To now learn that so many people agreed with me that Jeff Purves, the Vegas Mob Legbreaker saga, no mention of Rick or Betty, etc were a terrible and jarring shock is very interesting.

I wonder how sales compared with McFarlane... and whether PAD panicked.

He panicked. A lot.
He actually goes into this in a later essay in Amazing Heroes #198 in 1992 - a kind of mini essay on his Hulk tenure to that point. Says that McFarlane barely moved the needle during his run, except for #340, and they dipped again after that...but slowly creeped up as "Ground Zero" finished up and the Fixit arc began. Fan mail was 2/3 anti-gray Hulk and demanding that the real green Hulk make his return, so if you're fighting a fanbase that isn't interested in the main character's change, it's an uphill battle no matter who is drawing.
I will admit that all thru "Ground Zero", my love for the McFarlane Hulk was to see if he would bring back the green Hulk, as I was dying to see the shaggy-hair, bushy eyebrowed , no tattered powerhouse of old. The Fixit arc made me forget that...he acted like a thug, he's gonna work for one. There was no wimpy Banner, the Hulk is having fun...once Purves abruptly quit, and the merger storyline started, man...I was in heaven.

[ChrisIII]

If Coates does use Green Scar, I wonder if he'll address his Leader possession.

[witchboy]

Having re-read the PAD classic Hulk run and continued on through Joe Casey, John Byrne and Paul Jenkins I am puzzled by some of what Jenkins did with the multiple personalities.
Jenkins writes Professor Hulk as a separate personality from the others. Bruce is shocked to discover that Professor is a separate personality, and there's discussion on how the Professor wasn't really just Banner in Hulk's body, how his personality was so different.
There's no discussion on how the Professor was an integrated personality of Bruce, Joe Fixit and the Savage Hulk. Did Jenkins not understand this? Everyone always knew that the Professor was different from Bruce, because he was never intended to just be Bruce. He was an integration of all three of the personalities we had at that point. It's a hugely different take on the events that we saw play out, and I can't say I approve of this.
And a side point, in the later PAD era when we had the savage personality showing up in Bruce's puny body, I took that to mean that the Professor we saw then was only an integration of Bruce and Joe Fixit, since Savage Hulk had splintered off into his own separate personality.

[nj06]

Quick question: Are the "Green Scar" and "World-Breaker" personalities one-in-the-same or two different/separate personalities/Hulks?

[Dinosaur Hulk]

Quick question: Are the "Green Scar" and "World-Breaker" personalities one-in-the-same or two different/separate personalities/Hulks?

It's the same personality. But somebody can correct me if I am wrong. To me "World-Breaker" is just "Green Scar" in rage (but he still manages to keep his head cool at times compared to another Berserk Hulk)

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

It's the same personality. But somebody can correct me if I am wrong. To me "World-Breaker" is just "Green Scar" in rage (but he still manages to keep his head cool at times compared to another Berserk Hulk)

Exactly.
The "Green Scar" is a moniker, like "Mr. Fixit". It was given to the Hulk in Hulk #93 when the flabbergasted games announcer saw the Hulk rip off the head of one of the Eggbreaker robots.
He was green...and had scars from the lava. Green. Scar.
Not a new incarnation/alt/personality.
World Breaker is just a mode he goes into when he's uber-pissedScreen Shot 2021-07-11 at 7.12.24 PM.jpg.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Having re-read the PAD classic Hulk run and continued on through Joe Casey, John Byrne and Paul Jenkins I am puzzled by some of what Jenkins did with the multiple personalities.
Jenkins writes Professor Hulk as a separate personality from the others. Bruce is shocked to discover that Professor is a separate personality, and there's discussion on how the Professor wasn't really just Banner in Hulk's body, how his personality was so different.
There's no discussion on how the Professor was an integrated personality of Bruce, Joe Fixit and the Savage Hulk. Did Jenkins not understand this? Everyone always knew that the Professor was different from Bruce, because he was never intended to just be Bruce. He was an integration of all three of the personalities we had at that point. It's a hugely different take on the events that we saw play out, and I can't say I approve of this.
And a side point, in the later PAD era when we had the savage personality showing up in Bruce's puny body, I took that to mean that the Professor we saw then was only an integration of Bruce and Joe Fixit, since Savage Hulk had splintered off into his own separate personality.

It's a sore spot for PAD, he loathes the term and the retcon....because it was unnecessary.
The Hulk from the end of #377 to the end of "Onslaught" was the MERGED Hulk. He was, for the first time since childhood, a whole Bruce Banner...just affected by gamma radiation. It was meant to be a successful cure. But as with all the cures in the book's entire published history, it didn't last. The events of Future Imperfect and the invasion of the Mount shattered whatever stability the merger had delivered. The "Savage Banner" was a result of Betty getting shot, and Banner knowing he was going to lose all control again. Samson stated in #426 that "Bruce felt himself going over the edge. All the warnings I gave him got through...and he was terrified of his unleashed fury. And that fear triggered a sort of psychic failsafe. Before the fury swallowed him, he morphed his own body down to human size. We thought he'd lost the ability but it was just hidden, against a possible loss-of-control-eventuality."
So instead of another go-around at a mindless Hulk, we get a body swap with Banner maintaining control of the Merged Hulk body and the savage Hulk possessing Banner's body. It made for interesting stories, for sure, because the madder the Hulk got, the punier he got. (Not to mention the shrapnel he got in his brain from an exploding grenade.)
The events of Onslaught and Heroes Reborn destroyed it completely. The body and identity of the Merged Hulk was destroyed and reborn into what they call the "Bannerless Hulk"...who is then a weird conduit between the 616 and Heroes Reborn universes.
The standard Banner/Hulk status quo returns when the two Hulk and Banner are merged back together during the Heroes Return mini.
Either Jenkins didn't read up on this bit of history or ignored it completely.

[PCN24454]

I can remember not really caring for the art in these arcs myself. I liked McFarlane's art. And I could follow the stories leading up to the big blow-up... but then... Vegas? Hulk as kind-of a leg-breaker for a Mob-adjacent casino owner? Punching out easy-mark humans? eh..
At the time I didn't read enough into it to figure out that Marlo was "sleeping" with, er, "Joe".. I had largely stopped buying the issues so I didn't know at first about the angle of Joe telling the lie that "Bruce" was his (much smaller, wimpier) "Brother" who only showed up in the daytime.. lol.. I don't recall too many traditional Hulk-villains showing up, either.. which of course was on purpose, I guess.. since this was supposed to be a big secret that the big gray guy was not "the Hulk". (also at the time I knew nothing about the "gangster" personality glimpsed in the earliest Stan Lee comics)

Honestly, this is one of my favorite Hulk eras. They were stories that we hadn't had before and helped to develop Bruce's relationship with the Hulk.

[witchboy]

It's a sore spot for PAD, he loathes the term and the retcon....because it was unnecessary.
The Hulk from the end of #377 to the end of "Onslaught" was the MERGED Hulk. He was, for the first time since childhood, a whole Bruce Banner...just affected by gamma radiation. It was meant to be a successful cure. But as with all the cures in the book's entire published history, it didn't last. The events of Future Imperfect and the invasion of the Mount shattered whatever stability the merger had delivered. The "Savage Banner" was a result of Betty getting shot, and Banner knowing he was going to lose all control again. Samson stated in #426 that "Bruce felt himself going over the edge. All the warnings I gave him got through...and he was terrified of his unleashed fury. And that fear triggered a sort of psychic failsafe. Before the fury swallowed him, he morphed his own body down to human size. We thought he'd lost the ability but it was just hidden, against a possible loss-of-control-eventuality."
So instead of another go-around at a mindless Hulk, we get a body swap with Banner maintaining control of the Merged Hulk body and the savage Hulk possessing Banner's body. It made for interesting stories, for sure, because the madder the Hulk got, the punier he got. (Not to mention the shrapnel he got in his brain from an exploding grenade.)
The events of Onslaught and Heroes Reborn destroyed it completely. The body and identity of the Merged Hulk was destroyed and reborn into what they call the "Bannerless Hulk"...who is then a weird conduit between the 616 and Heroes Reborn universes.
The standard Banner/Hulk status quo returns when the two Hulk and Banner are merged back together during the Heroes Return mini.
Either Jenkins didn't read up on this bit of history or ignored it completely.

Thanks for that insightful commentary. I did feel like Jenkins didn't know the history well, but it's disappointing that editorial didn't know and take more of an interest with this rather large continuity error. It's a shame too because the work PAD on Banner's multiple personalities added so much depth and complexity to him. It's still there to draw on but Jenkins - who I generally like as a writer - did kind of make a mess of it.
I did feel like the Heroes Reborn era for Hulk went off the rails a bit.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Thanks for that insightful commentary. I did feel like Jenkins didn't know the history well, but it's disappointing that editorial didn't know and take more of an interest with this rather large continuity error. It's a shame too because the work PAD on Banner's multiple personalities added so much depth and complexity to him. It's still there to draw on but Jenkins - who I generally like as a writer - did kind of make a mess of it.
I did feel like the Heroes Reborn era for Hulk went off the rails a bit.

I think the problem is that writers operate on a general basis of 'Character cannot be cured, or the story ends'.

If the Professor Hulk is a merged Hulk/Banner, then the story is over.

IMO, the better position would have been to treat PAD's Professor Hulk was Banner cured, but later events led to his mind splintering, and the creation of the Professor Hulk. It's not like there's an endpoint to one's mental health, and it's not as if Bruce didn't go through all kinds of stress under PAD.

[HeavenlyDemonic]

Thanks for that insightful commentary. I did feel like Jenkins didn't know the history well, but it's disappointing that editorial didn't know and take more of an interest with this rather large continuity error. It's a shame too because the work PAD on Banner's multiple personalities added so much depth and complexity to him. It's still there to draw on but Jenkins - who I generally like as a writer - did kind of make a mess of it.
I did feel like the Heroes Reborn era for Hulk went off the rails a bit.

It’s not surprising that editorial didn’t correct Jenkins’ continuity mistake. The reason that PAD left the Heroes Reborn era was because disagreements with editorial over the direction of Hulk’s character. So once he was, editorial completely ignored elements of his run for years, even after Jenkins’ run.

I’ve always hated the Professor retcon because it robs more 5 years worth of storylines of their intended emotional hook. Perhaps a better solution would have been to say that the merged hulk did exist as PAD originally planned up until the events of issue 425, where Betty is shot and Bruce has his mental breakdown. Then, due to the breakdown, just say he didn’t have the fortitude to maintain the merger anymore, so his subconscious created the Professor as a solution, and that’s the person that we see from the end of issue 426 until the end of the Onslaught event. It’s not a perfect answer, but it’s better than invalidating that whole section of the run character wise.

[Triniking1234]

If Coates does use Green Scar, I wonder if he'll address his Leader possession.

Cates. I don't want Coates anywhere near the Avengers anymore.

[Vordan]

So do you guys think there’s any chance we get a Hulk focused episode on What If? Would be really nice if they launched full blown animated series for the Hulk that spun out of that show.