"Beware Their Power" - Green Lantern Mythos Appreciation 2021

[Redjack]

All I can say in response to her death is that as long as she remains dead, I'm not buying the book, So unless she's revived I'm not buying the book. So if you're saying she's staying dead under you, I'm not buying. I fully believe you've killed her off, which is one of the many problems with the book's current current direction, and the one that broke the camel's back for me. I'm not questioning whether you've killed her. I'm was speculating that she might be revived from her death by her presence on an upcoming cover. Death is a very fixable problem in comics. So if you're trying to say that "She is staying dead as long as I'm on the book, the cover is a mistake", well, you've just put your foot in your mouth and killed what little interest that cover generated in me. Though frankly there's still weasel room in your words because there's a difference in between saying "She is dead (currently)" and "She is staying dead, the cover is a mistake" which I find annoying personally, though I understand the desire to be ambiguous and surprise readers.

You should always assume that I'm speaking plainly and directly and that there's no need for "weasel room" in anything I say.

Because I always am and there never is.

I'm not coy, I'm not toying with you. None of the plot twists were included lightly or to "push" one set of Lanterns "over" another. I don't do the silly politics that so many online fans currently seem obsessed with.

Nothing I write is a "screw you" to any fan or any group of fans. I have no agenda beyond the story I came to tell. Either I'll get to tell all three parts or I won't. Regardless, for me, it's about the story and only the story.


It's a story. It's not even close to over.

[Redjack]

A bit suspect when...

All the white characters are suspiciously bumped out the book to focus on a cadre of Z-list PoC + LGBT characters.
I certainly don't have any problem with PoC characters in and of themselves (coincidentally, I am actually currently REALLY enjoying a video game starring a black lesbian robot called Unsighted...
)

, but some things are glaring and come off as contrived when taken in context of the history of a franchise and it's characters. This is one of those moments that feels contrived and weird to me, as if someone intentionally did this specifically for some socio-political reason. I don't know whose decision it was to do this, but it definitely looks like someone was up to something. For the record, I also thought it suspicious when the one black Green Lantern was consistently ignored during the Geoff Johns era, so it's not like I'm "unfair" or anything like that.

Also, the story seems to go out of its way at times to take pot shots at Geoff Johns' Emotional Spectrum. I'm not even a fan of that, but I can detect it happening.

It's fascinating watching folks twist themselves into knots trying to find a hidden agenda in my work when there isn't one.

I pitched a John Stewart story, which is, more or less, being told. DC asked me If I would include Jo. When I said 'yes' to that, I chose to use Keli and Simon as support characters.

How it 'feels' to you is meaningless. I'm telling you what it actually is. If you choose not to believe that, there's very little I can do to help you.

The story is the story. It's not going "out of its way" to do anything. Your weird notions about my motivations are, well, just weird, is all. But it's your right to dislike anything you dislike for any reason you dislike it. All I can tell you is you're absolutely wrong about my motivations for telling this story and about what the story is doing. 100% wrong.

That's a fact. I prefer them to opinion, mostly. Mileage varies.

[Sodam Yat]

I'm not certain what DC's expectations for it were but I don't believe the sales were much lower than the later issues of S1. What I did find odd was when Liam Sharp tweeted S2 was going to reduced before it even started yet, and eventually it was reverted back to the original 12 issues. So I thought it was just a case of Morrison not wanting to do another full 12 issue run at first(they said in a recent interview they had to be talked into doing S2) and changing their mind afterwards, not that it had something to do with sales, but who knows. It still was hardly promoted, I remember seeing one interview with Morrison on DC's YouTube channel for it, and DC would sometimes post a "What did you think" tweet after some issues and that was about it.

Ah ok. Makes sense. That can probably also affect overall sales when an artist announce that S2 will be reduced. He probably tweeted about it, because he was dissatisfied with that decision to reduce 12 issues at first, but he shouldn't have mentioned about it in the first place. When I found out about it, it was my impression that Grant Morrison didn't want to work on the series that long.

[Frontier]

Surprisingly not a lot of green lantern holiday messages, but happy holidays and best of luck in the new year (in personal life and your writing work)

When was the last time we saw Larfleeze? Venditti's run?

[sifighter]

When was the last time we saw Larfleeze? Venditti's run?

Don’t know, this is just what came up after googling Green Lantern Happy Holidays.

[John Venus]

Is there a cliff notes version of everything that happened between the end of Blackest Night and the start of Thorne's run? There are some gaps in my GL reading that I plan to fill in on but I also like to know the general outline of what I'm getting into.

[skyvolt2000]

Regarding Arisia, I like her a lot more than anyone else in the main cast aside from John, so it is somewhat upsetting to see her killed off while the likes of Jo, Teen Lantern, and Simon Baz are being focused on.
She wasn't woke enough to survive, unfortunately

How about allow Redjack to do the job DC hired him for? Without the cheap shots?

Like Robert Venditti was DESPITE all the complaints. Funny the ONLY writer to use Arisa almost 30 times.

Van Jensen used her and DC axed his run with her and John.
Cullen Bunn was using her and his run got cut short and his replacement tossed her aside.

Yet I did not see her fans attack DC editorial.

She was killed off in Guy Gardner's book too and that writer wanted to bring her back. EDITORIAL would not let him. 10 years later she was back.

Looking at Green Lantern sales from 1996-2006-NOBODY missed her. Johns only used her 10 times during his 10+ years.

Why is her absence a deal break now? If this was a Hal lead book would it be deal breaker? Hal, Guy, Kyle and G'Nort lead book would it be an issue?

Because it has not been an issue for the past 25 years (Venditti's usage not withstanding).

For something that can be undone at anytime depending on how Redjack's run ends.

[John Venus]

It's comics though. It's not like the death is going to stick. I guarantee that either the next GL writer or somebody writing another title will bring her back.

I don't see the point in being upset over something that's been turned into a cheap gimmick a long time ago.

[Gaius]

I like Arisia but this is getting ridiculous.

[Sodam Yat]

It's comics though. It's not like the death is going to stick. I guarantee that either the next GL writer or somebody writing another title will bring her back.

I don't see the point in being upset over something that's been turned into a cheap gimmick a long time ago.

She might even come back on this story arc.

[Sodam Yat]

How about allow Redjack to do the job DC hired him for? Without the cheap shots?

Like Robert Venditti was DESPITE all the complaints. Funny the ONLY writer to use Arisa almost 30 times.

Van Jensen used her and DC axed his run with her and John.
Cullen Bunn was using her and his run got cut short and his replacement tossed her aside.

Yet I did not see her fans attack DC editorial.

She was killed off in Guy Gardner's book too and that writer wanted to bring her back. EDITORIAL would not let him. 10 years later she was back.

Looking at Green Lantern sales from 1996-2006-NOBODY missed her. Johns only used her 10 times during his 10+ years.

Why is her absence a deal break now? If this was a Hal lead book would it be deal breaker? Hal, Guy, Kyle and G'Nort lead book would it be an issue?

Because it has not been an issue for the past 25 years (Venditti's usage not withstanding).

For something that can be undone at anytime depending on how Redjack's run ends.

I think there's legitimate concerns about her current status among some but saying she's killed off, because an alien isn't woke enough is beyond me. This arc isn't even finished yet.

But yeah, I never really seen complaints about her being in limbo among other writers like this. The closest one comes to mind was when Robert Venditti wrote HJ&TGLC. Because four human lanterns took up most panels, so there was hardly any focus on alien Green Lanterns, including her.

[j9ac9k]

A bit suspect when...
All the white characters are suspiciously bumped out the book to focus on a cadre of Z-list PoC + LGBT characters.....

Let's try to remember that this is an appreciation thread for all GLs where we try to not make derogatory comments about any GLs as being "Z-list." (also, what are "all the white characters" aside from Hal and Guy?)

Any writer will have a preference for which characters they want to write. Is that any more of "an agenda" as when writers happened to write almost exclusively about white characters? You can't call one an "agenda" and not the other, imo. Redjack isn't responsible for DC not putting out other GL titles focusing on those characters, he's just writing the story DC hired him for. Personally, I didn't like that Venditti only focused on the humans, but those were the GLs he wanted to write. (unless editorial forced him) There are so many human GLs at this point, it's actually more likely the focus won't be on the white characters. I love Hal and I want a book about him, but this notion that anything that isn't that is "an agenda" just strikes me as sour grapes at best and ... something else at worst.(especially when coupled with the tired "anti-woke" complaining)

[Artemisfanboy]

You should always assume that I'm speaking plainly and directly and that there's no need for "weasel room" in anything I say.

Because I always am and there never is.

I'm not coy, I'm not toying with you. None of the plot twists were included lightly or to "push" one set of Lanterns "over" another. I don't do the silly politics that so many online fans currently seem obsessed with.

Nothing I write is a "screw you" to any fan or any group of fans. I have no agenda beyond the story I came to tell. Either I'll get to tell all three parts or I won't. Regardless, for me, it's about the story and only the story.


It's a story. It's not even close to over.

Well I feel like this discussion really isn't going anywhere, not that I expected it to. I didn't go into this thinking that I'm going to convince or influence you to change your "story" or anything. And on the flipside you have nothing to offer me to get me back as an Arisia fan except a resurrection. Dead Arisia=no chance of sale. It's as simple as that with me right now. The only reason I'm even in this thread is because she's on the cover of #13. Otherwise I'd just be ignoring the book exists while waiting for somebody to come along a clean up the mess eventually. So if your continued engaging of me is to try and get me back reading while not resurrecting Arisia, it's a forgone failure. On the other hand on the outside chance her appearance on the cover is foreshadowing a possible resurrection I may very well give it a second chance

As for you intending to speak plainly and directly, It sounds like your saying Arisia is staying dead, cover is wrong, and there's no point wasting the one or so minute I would have spent in three months seeing if she's been resurrected, but with less blunt language than I just used. If that's what you're meaning to say, I guess I can appreciate the courtesy of attempting to save the minute I would spend checking to see if my bare minimum requirement to consider checking out GL again had been met.

Now I'm not going to accuse you of having a political agenda like Laimbeer, as I find that line of thought toxic, counterproductive and just plain stupid on multiple levels(for example, I was not aware democrats had adopted an anti-space alien position.). I'm also not going to accuse you as personally hating Arisia. If I had to profile this situation, I'd say your guilty of apathy. You simply didn't care about her one way or another like the other GLs that have been killed, and figured you could kill her and them off as cheap sacrifices to establish "things are serious and have real stakes". I've seen this kind of thing countless times before and know I will see it again in the future many times. It's very tired played out trope. The best I can hope for is in the long run of things it amounts to a temporary inconvenience and she doesn't stay dead for decades.

And yes it's your John/Jo/Simon/Kelli story. And it will last as long as DC decides to allow it or you finish it and walk away. But it's also had negative, possibly long change to other characters, such as Arisia. That's a problem for me and other people. So as far it not being over, if you don't intend to resurrect her, I have no recourse but hope and pray it ends on the sooner side of sooner or later and that the next writer will immediately set about cleaning things up and bringing her and others back to life.

I really don't think there's anything more we can say to each other about this issue at this time. At least until March, assuming a most optimistic case scenario, which you've highly discouraged.

She was killed off in Guy Gardner's book too and that writer wanted to bring her back. EDITORIAL would not let him. 10 years later she was back.

Looking at Green Lantern sales from 1996-2006-NOBODY missed her. Johns only used her 10 times during his 10+ years.

Why is her absence a deal break now? If this was a Hal lead book would it be deal breaker? Hal, Guy, Kyle and G'Nort lead book would it be an issue?

Because it has not been an issue for the past 25 years (Venditti's usage not withstanding).

For something that can be undone at anytime depending on how Redjack's run ends.

Well first of all, I'm pretty sure plently of people were unhappy about er being left dead for 10 years, along with most of Corp. I'm pretty sure some of us are remembering that ten year right now and are hoping we are not in for another ten year or longer span of her being dead.

Second, there is a big difference between not being used, and being dead. It means the next writer actually has to either work to bring her back, or just pretend her death didn't happen. Hopefully in a way that her appearance wouldn't be able to be dismissed as an artist mistake in later case.

It's comics though. It's not like the death is going to stick. I guarantee that either the next GL writer or somebody writing another title will bring her back.

I don't see the point in being upset over something that's been turned into a cheap gimmick a long time ago.

Well I don't feel Arisia is as guaranteed a speedy resurrection as much as you do. She does have some points in her favor making her more likely, but she's far from a safe bet. It could easily take years into addition however Thorne's run lasts. So we are still very much asking the question WILL she get brought back, and if she does, HOW LONG will it take? In the mean time she's still dead, and it remains an ongoing problem.
But thanks for acknowledging the cheap gimickness of her death.

She might even come back on this story arc..

If you've been reading Redjack's posts in response to me, he doesn't seem to be saying it's a possibility, unless you want to take him stopping just short of explicitly confirming she's not coming back as a positive hint. At the very least he seems to be highly discouraging my initial faint optimism from #13's cover.

[Redjack]

Well I feel like this discussion really isn't going anywhere, not that I expected it to. I didn't go into this thinking that I'm going to convince or influence you to change your "story" or anything. And on the flipside you have nothing to offer me to get me back as an Arisia fan except a resurrection. Dead Arisia=no chance of sale. It's as simple as that with me right now.... So if your continued engaging of me is to try and get me back reading while not resurrecting Arisia, it's a forgone failure.

Nope. Im not trying to get you to buy (or not buy) anything. What I'm doing is presenting the facts of the situation.

Is the cover "wrong?" Well, Keli Quintela's in a coma and has been for three issues now. Does the cover, showing her flying with the Lanterns, indicate a story point? Based on the relationship of the covers in this run to the interiors of the issues, it would be kind of nutty to think you're getting anything but an artist's impression rather than firm story points. Mileage varies.

I don't give away plot stuff in advance but I can tell you nothing you've seen will prep you for the end of this arc. Whether or not you purchase it is entirely up to you. I won't be upset if you don't. You should never buy anything you don't like, even if I'm one of the people who made it.

Now I'm not going to accuse you of having a political agenda like Laimbeer, as I find that line of thought toxic, counterproductive and just plain stupid on multiple levels(for example, I was not aware democrats had adopted an anti-space alien position.). I'm also not going to accuse you as personally hating Arisia. If I had to profile this situation, I'd say your guilty of apathy.

Nope. I'm not "guilty" of anything. Every character who has ever existed in Green Lantern (or any fiction) is just that– a character to be employed, as needed, to tell whatever story a particular writer wants to tell. No more than that and no less.

there is a big difference between not being used, and being dead. It means the next writer actually has to either work to bring her back, or just pretend her death didn't happen.

Yep. That's very true. But I've already laid multiple places and ways a clever writer can come in and undo all or part of this story. Intentionally. These are super-hero comic books after all. Everything we do is written in beach sand.

If you've been reading Redjack's posts in response to me, he doesn't seem to be saying it's a possibility, unless you want to take him stopping just short of explicitly confirming she's not coming back as a positive hint. At the very least he seems to be highly discouraging my initial faint optimism from #13's cover.

I have been clear and consistent since the beginning of this run. Everyone who dies in a realistic way is dead. Actually dead. For real. Resurrection is always possible in the DCU but these deaths will be a real job to take back without a major reality warp. I'm not saying that to be combative. It's just how I see death in adventure fiction. It's not limited to Green Lantern.

But, please, let us all remember, the very first Green Lantern anyone met in the Silver Age reboot of the title was Abin Sur, who died in the line of duty and passed on his ring. It's a dangerous job, as established right at the very beginning.

[StarSpangledMan]

Anyways...

Green Lanterns are pretty cool amirite guys