Cassandra Cain: Orphan, Black Bat, Batgirl Appreciation 2021

[AmiMizuno]

I'm curious how does everyone feel about the codename Orphan? Many dislike that codename. Rather just want her to go by the name Black Bat

[MajorHoy]

I'm curious how does everyone feel about the codename Orphan? Many dislike that codename. Rather just want her to go by the name Black Bat

Haven't we covered this already in like two-or-five other threads?

General consensus to me seemed to be that people were unsatisfied with the "Orphan" name.

[Frontier]

I'm curious how does everyone feel about the codename Orphan? Many dislike that codename. Rather just want her to go by the name Black Bat

It's a terrible Superhero name in my opinion.

[9th.]

I'm curious how does everyone feel about the codename Orphan? Many dislike that codename. Rather just want her to go by the name Black Bat

I've always hated it, I don't care for Black Bat either but it's better than Orphan. Plus Orphan sounds like a villain.

[T-o-C-A]

I'm curious how does everyone feel about the codename Orphan? Many dislike that codename. Rather just want her to go by the name Black Bat

It's not a very good name. Altough i'm pretty sure the reason why they dont use Black Bat is due to DC not really owning it.

[AJpyro]

While I like the current eps featuring Cass, I feel the neck scarring and making Shiva de facto Bad parent unnecessary.

[Frontier]

While I like the current eps featuring Cass, I feel the neck scarring and making Shiva de facto Bad parent unnecessary.

I wish she didn't have her throat slit as it feels like she might never get to talk.

[king81992]

I can't believe they made Cass's backstory in YJ arguably worse than in the comics.

Shiva might be worse than David Cain.

Honestly, I always thought that Shiva was bad as David.

[Frontier]

Honestly, I always thought that Shiva was bad as David.

Well, comparatively neither are the best people .

[heyevaxx]

I really liked Cass in episode 07 "The Lady, or the Tigress?"

Her new backstory is similar to the Asian crime lord throat rip murder and the post-OYL Harper-Mom slaying but:
1) it hits much more closely to home because of the other principals,
2) the new origin re-arranges why she feels guilt and
3) it helps explain the close bond she has with a Batfam principal.
spoilers:

I think having Babs jump in front of Joker, not to save his life but to stop Cass from becoming a killer is brilliant and a nice update for her story. Cass-origin-1: she kills a nobody criminal Cass-origin-2: she kills a mom of a principal, someone who had become a friend Cass-origin-3: in Young Justice she was *going* to kill someone who absolutely deserved it but was saved from being a killer by Babs This is well done I think since Joker is probably the first DC villain people always think of that deserves the death penalty instead of being shuffled back into Arkham so he can just break out again. And with Babs, this demonstrates her righteous character and innate Goodness which teaches Cassandra about the absolute value of life, any life, plus the lengths a true superhero will go to support that value. This new origin sets the foundation for Babs and Cass having such a close bond. In the past origins, the bond just developed like a big sister/young auntie but without any specific initiating event. Barbara: I wasn't trying to save Joker. I was trying to save you.

end of spoilers
@AJpyro: While I like the current eps featuring Cass, I feel the neck scarring and making Shiva de facto Bad parent unnecessary.
I think the scarring serves two purposes:
1) I know it's Cass, it's an identifier which she kind of lacks, like Batwoman's red suit hightlights or a distinctive face mask
2) I can see she "battle hardened" or maybe "tortured hardened" might be more accurate. No need for her to disrobe like when she changed outfits in front of Steph long ago and Steph asked about all the circular scars on her back (disciplinary bullet wounds from David and the scars grew) or the infamous Outsiders scene when she nude-walked to the fridge for OJ and tons of scars all over her were visible (aside from the cringey cheesecake-ness of this, I liked how it showed her almost feral upbringing with no socialization).

@Frontier: I wish she didn't have her throat slit as it feels like she might never get to talk.
I fear about her being perma-silent too but I'm hopeful some of the ridiculously advanced tech on display in the show will allow vocal cords to be regenerated or a bionic implant used. Setting aside alien stuff from Mars (e.g. the "Baby" ship), tech from Earth is crazy advanced. Like the drone that Babs has flying around: tiny, semi-stealth, infinite battery/power, ultra-high speed data connection, little Bat-gadgets are built into it - it's nuts! If Wayne Tech can build that Babs-drone, they can make a vocal cord replacement for my girl Cassie! Her slowly talking, one or two words at a time haltingly would make sense after getting the new speaking ability. Perfect.

PS - So the Batfam is busy (except Babs) but they can come if it's an emergency - hmmm, I wonder if we'll see them next episode?

[T-o-C-A]

While I like the current eps featuring Cass, I feel the neck scarring and making Shiva de facto Bad parent unnecessary.

Giving her facial scarring is neat, but i think that making her phsyically mute does kind of impede on a lot of her developments regarding speech, which was her first big moment after all. Not the biggest change for YJ however.

I dont necessarily mind compositing Shiva with David (even if removing the Cain name makes Cass sound a lot less cool), since i guess it was done to avoid comparisons with Sportsmaster here.

[AJpyro]

I think the scarring serves two purposes:
1) I know it's Cass, it's an identifier which she kind of lacks, like Batwoman's red suit hightlights or a distinctive face mask
2) I can see she "battle hardened" or maybe "tortured hardened" might be more accurate. No need for her to disrobe like when she changed outfits in front of Steph long ago and Steph asked about all the circular scars on her back (disciplinary bullet wounds from David and the scars grew) or the infamous Outsiders scene when she nude-walked to the fridge for OJ and tons of scars all over her were visible (aside from the cringey cheesecake-ness of this, I liked how it showed her almost feral upbringing with no socialization).

1. That falls flat because all the indication we need that Orphan is Cassandra is that like her comic style, she wears all covering and sewn mouth cowl and costume. Literally cutting her vocal cords is unnecessary.

2. Battle hardened. That is an issue to show unless they have Cass go around in a sleeveless T or just show her without the mask and see the scars.

I'm not gonna be on board the cut neck or the reason behind Barbara becoming Oracle.

[The Cool Thatguy]

My main objection with Young Justice's 'update' to Cass' origin is that it doesn't make much sense.

Cass' trauma comes from having actually seeing the effect of killing. I don't understand why she'd give a damn about someone preventing her kill and wouldn't just try again.

It'd be better if Babs helped Cass before taking that bullet, IMO.

[Frontier]

My main objection with Young Justice's 'update' to Cass' origin is that it doesn't make much sense.

Cass' trauma comes from having actually seeing the effect of killing. I don't understand why she'd give a damn about someone preventing her kill and wouldn't just try again.

It'd be better if Babs helped Cass before taking that bullet, IMO.

I guess the idea is that she sees the effect inflicting pain on others is and that person showed her genuine compassion and that's what does it. But, really, it's kind of undercut by the fact that she's still swinging a sword or brings it out at the first provocation.

[Aahz]

While I like the current eps featuring Cass, I feel the neck scarring and making Shiva de facto Bad parent unnecessary.

Shiva is a pretty terrible parent (and I'm not sure you could even call her that), she left Cass with Cain and the only interest she had in her pre flashpoint was fighting her in a duel to the death.

I mean (the comics version of) Cheshire is pretty unredeemable, but genuinely cares for Lian, Shiva's feelings towards Cass at best indifferent.