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  1. #196
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I like 'Shadow Bat' but it's a mouthful. Something shorter and simpler.

    What about Yīnyǐng (阴影)? It's simplified Chinese for 'shadow' and it's a dual reference to Batman and Lady Shiva (who is IIRC Chinese American).

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I like 'Shadow Bat' but it's a mouthful. Something shorter and simpler.

    What about Yīnyǐng (阴影)? It's simplified Chinese for 'shadow' and it's a dual reference to Batman and Lady Shiva (who is IIRC Chinese American).
    I like Shadow Bat as well, but it feels like a code name she would share with others.

    I remember one comic, I think, saying Shiva came form Detroit, which I always enjoyed the contrast of with her more cultured, “citizen-of-the-world” personality as Shiva. It makes me think an interesting nuance to add to her and Cass’s relationship, to play up the dichotomy of someone who can be as cruel and cold as Shiva still having a soft spot for Cass, if the thing that irked Shiva about how Cain raised Cass most specifically, that could get past her tolerance for brutality and make her feel sorry... would be Cass’s deprivation at Cain’s hands.

    Shiva spends half of her teaching relationship with her students either violently assaulting them, getting someone else to do it, or otherwise doing something painfully pragmatic. But she’s someone who enjoys good food, good tea, and chocolate, and definitely seems to enjoy the finer things in life. I could see her shrugging off Cass’s physical suffering under Cain as being expected and likely think if she could take it, so should Cass... but be freaked out and empathetic when she realizes that her daughter hasn’t and in some ways can’t enjoy the same things she does because of Cain’s deprivations.

    Almost like Shiva is cruel enough to get Cain scarring their daughter, but regards Cass’s language problems as an unnecessary, foolish, and painful abuse separate from that.
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  3. #198
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Shiva and her sister Carolyn were always said to have moved to Detroit. Later it was established that Shiva came from a unnamed fictional village in an unnamed fictional country. Must have gotten it mixed up because I could have sworn Shiva was explicitly identified as being of Chinese or Hong Kong descent.

    Shiva is the perfect weapon but one without a purpose. She is only devoted to honing her craft, her skill, it's left her rudderless. So she travels the world, sometimes a good guy, sometimes a bad guy, rearing up possible opponents she could fight, all for her amusement. She is apathetic towards any side (at least in most versions).
    Cass on the other hand is 'complete' because she was taught all that Shiva knows but she found a purpose and it came from the very skills she was taught. It was her first kill and seeing that man die that kicked her onto the path of being a hero. So Cass has all of Shiva's skills but also knows where to channel all of that talent.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Shiva and her sister Carolyn were always said to have moved to Detroit. Later it was established that Shiva came from a unnamed fictional village in an unnamed fictional country. Must have gotten it mixed up because I could have sworn Shiva was explicitly identified as being of Chinese or Hong Kong descent.
    Shiva's origin is kind of messy, the original version basically contradicts completely Cassandras Origin.

    Back then Shiva was never a member of the LoA, Cain didn't kill Carolyn (and didn't exist) and based on the time when Carolyn was killed (during the Bronze Age when Dick was already in Collage) it would have been imposable for Cassandra to be allready a teenager.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post

    It's also the name of a Marvel Comics character.
    She was introduced back in the day in New Warriors, but I don't know when she was last used / referred to.
    So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Shiva's origin is kind of messy, the original version basically contradicts completely Cassandras Origin.

    Back then Shiva was never a member of the LoA, Cain didn't kill Carolyn (and didn't exist) and based on the time when Carolyn was killed (during the Bronze Age when Dick was already in Collage) it would have been imposable for Cassandra to be already a teenager.
    I would prefer if Cass was Carolyn's daughter instead of Shiva's.

  6. #201
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Shiva's origin is kind of messy, the original version basically contradicts completely Cassandras Origin.

    Back then Shiva was never a member of the LoA, Cain didn't kill Carolyn (and didn't exist) and based on the time when Carolyn was killed (during the Bronze Age when Dick was already in Collage) it would have been imposable for Cassandra to be allready a teenager.
    Her original origin was Pre-Crisis. Cass was introduced Post Crisis. So its safe to say that those older stories got over written by the newer ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I would prefer if Cass was Carolyn's daughter instead of Shiva's.
    Why?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Her original origin was Pre-Crisis. Cass was introduced Post Crisis. So its safe to say that those older stories got over written by the newer ones.
    Even than it wasn't untill after Cass was introduced (more than a decade after Crisis) that those changes were made, and they started to slowly retcon Shivas Origin.

    Which leads to the contradictions between earlier and later stories.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Even than it wasn't untill after Cass was introduced (more than a decade after Crisis) that those changes were made, and they started to slowly retcon Shivas Origin.

    Which leads to the contradictions between earlier and later stories.
    Well, that's never happened in DC comics before!

  9. #204

  10. #205
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    from Birds of Prey Secret Files 2003 (August 2003)

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  12. #207
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    Very nice, classic Cassandra Cain/Black Bat look.
    Last edited by Celgress; 03-28-2021 at 02:45 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #208
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Very nice, classic Cassandra Cain/Black Bat look.
    But is that a Black Bat or just Cass as Batgirl without a mask?

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But is that a Black Bat or just Cass as Batgirl without a mask?
    This is from the Batgirls story in Gotham Knights.

    Stephanie and Cassandra will likely have another name apart of Batgirls.

    Black Bat would be a lot better than Orphan.

  15. #210
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But is that a Black Bat or just Cass as Batgirl without a mask?
    Either way, Cass is looking good in the pic. A very nice rendition of her character.
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