Cassandra Cain: Orphan, Black Bat, Batgirl Appreciation 2021

[dietrich]

Yeah, writers have always given her the short end of the straw when it comes to a relationship with Bruce.

God forbid they try something new and give him a surrogate daughter.

They gave him a daughter in Helena and i fail to see how having Cass as a daughter adds/enhances anything about the story.

Cass was already working and living with bruce which is about all writers do with his current kids,

[The Cool Thatguy]

Duke made into family photos.

I'm looking foeward to the day they tell us the story of how bruce adopted a kid who wasn't in the system and who has a parent.

Bruce is a hero not a law breaker. Legally he can not adopt Cass while she has a mother unless he is a step parent

That's not true at all. Adoption can occur between any two legal adults who consent to it.

All things considered, Shiva wouldn't have a leg to stand on. She wouldn't be listed on the birth certificate if Cass even has one, she's a wanted criminal so she couldn't show up in court and Cass only met her as a young adult, so she had no moral ground to object.

They gave him a daughter in Helena and i fail to see how having Cass as a daughter adds/enhances anything about the story.

Cass was already working and living with bruce which is about all writers do with his current kids,

Helena hasn't existed in mainstream canon for 3 decades now.

And Cass stands in contrast to the Bat boys in that she pulls towards Bruce's lifestyle, to his identity, when the others pull away

[dietrich]

That's not true at all. Adoption can occur between any two legal adults who consent to it.

All things considered, Shiva wouldn't have a leg to stand on. She wouldn't be listed on the birth certificate if Cass even has one, she's a wanted criminal so she couldn't show up in court and Cass only met her as a young adult, so she had no moral ground to object.




Helena hasn't existed in mainstream canon for 3 decades now.

And Cass stands in contrast to the Bat boys in that she pulls towards Bruce's lifestyle, to his identity, when the others pull away

So Bruce adopted adult Cass despite her not having a Birth cert. Yeah sounds legit and something the Bat writers will explore in story.

ALL the boys pull towards Bruce's lifestyle.
Damian pulls towards his identity and that story angle has been explored to exhaustion. Rehasing those stories with a different gender is just that Gender bent rehash of old plots.

The only benefit to bruce adopting Cass is that she might get bumped up the visibility ladder.

Giving her more panel space and making her part of the inner circle but if DC is as sexist as Blight insists then that's not likely to be a given.

Helena doesn't need to be in main canon for her stories to be explored. I've read stories of bruce raising a daughter and I've read stories of Bruce taking on another man's daughter and her growing up to take the Batmantle.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So Bruce adopted adult Cass despite her not having a Birth cert. Yeah sounds legit and something the Bat writers will explore in story.

ALL the boys pull towards Bruce's lifestyle.
Damian pulls towards his identity and that story angle has been explored to exhaustion. Rehasing those stories with a different gender is just that Gender bent rehash of old plots.

The only benefit to bruce adopting Cass is that she might get bumped up the visibility ladder.

Giving her more panel space and making her part of the inner circle but if DC is as sexist as Blight insists then that's not likely to be a given.

Helena doesn't need to be in main canon for her stories to be explored. I've read stories of bruce raising a daughter and I've read stories of Bruce taking on another man's daughter and her growing up to take the Batmantle.

You act as if forging documents would be all that hard for Bruce

All the Bat boys do not pull towards Bruce. Tim has stated time and again he doesn't want to be Bruce, Dick created his own ID to escape his shadow and Jason will always go left if Bruce says right.

True, Damien pulls towards Bruce, but only because he's an entitled bastard. He views Batman as his birthright, whereas Cass views it like Bruce, as a cause.

Cass offers more ability to act as a foil towards Bruce, compared to Damien-lite Helena

[Konja7]

The only benefit to bruce adopting Cass is that she might get bumped up the visibility ladder.

Giving her more panel space and making her part of the inner circle but if DC is as sexist as Blight insists then that's not likely to be a given.

That's the main reason why many Cassandra fans want Cassandra to be adopted. They want the visibility this situation will bring to the character.

Honestly, many Cassandra fans complaint how Bruce treats Cassandra in her Batgirl solo. So, I don't think there is so much interest in this father-daughter relationship.

[dietrich]

You act as if forging documents would be all that hard for Bruce

All the Bat boys do not pull towards Bruce. Tim has stated time and again he doesn't want to be Bruce, Dick created his own ID to escape his shadow and Jason will always go left if Bruce says right.

True, Damien pulls towards Bruce, but only because he's an entitled bastard. He views Batman as his birthright, whereas Cass views it like Bruce, as a cause.

Cass offers more ability to act as a foil towards Bruce, compared to Damien-lite Helena

All the boys have the same lifestyle as bruce so we already have those stories.

damian has been gunning for the same identity as bruce since he was born and has been gunning for his identity as batman and a hero since he was 10. we have those stories and we have the countless stories of when He realises the dream. Those stories are done.

We are getting a cass as batman story soon anyway.
Damian doesn't consider Batman just as a birth right. i understand that some like to ignore canon but if we are to have a legit debate then plz don't run away from canon or try to ignore canon.

This isn't about dissing characters.

[Frontier]

I'd like to see more BrucexCass moments moving forward, although I guess they're building up her relationship with Babs and Steph again first.

[Lal]

That's the main reason why many Cassandra fans want Cassandra to be adopted. They want the visibility this situation will bring to the character.

Honestly, many Cassandra fans complaint how Bruce treats Cassandra in her Batgirl solo. So, I don't think there is so much interest in this father-daughter relationship.

I think it just feels slightly redundant to have her adopted, as it brings very little to the table:
Dick already is already the so-called golden child / the one that is most important to Bruce (based on what was said in infinite crisis), and the "better / clearer version of Batman".
Jason has the complicated relationship, with Bruce feeling that he failed him.
Damian has the entire "Bruce's real son", for better or worse.
Even Tim is slightly lost and doesn't really find his place in the family.

And all four of them are vigilantes, bat-allies, and all of them were batman in different adaptations.

I think she should carve her own way, preferably different than all the other Robins.
The batgirls team sounds like a better idea than leaning on her relationship with Bruce.

[The Cool Thatguy]

All the boys have the same lifestyle as bruce so we already have those stories.

damian has been gunning for the same identity as bruce since he was born and has been gunning for his identity as batman and a hero since he was 10. we have those stories and we have the countless stories of when He realises the dream. Those stories are done.

We are getting a cass as batman story soon anyway.
Damian doesn't consider Batman just as a birth right. i understand that some like to ignore canon but if we are to have a legit debate then plz don't run away from canon or try to ignore canon.

This isn't about dissing characters.

They have the life style, but they don't have the same characterization. They have differing motivations and to that, Bruce is a foil. But as a rule, they all pull away from Bruce. Cass does not.

She's just as dedicated as him, for much the same reasons. And she can work alongside him, unlike Helena

[Aahz]

Duke made into family photos.

In the post flash point comics Duke actually lived at the manor for quite some time, and Bruce was trained by Bruce, Cass was just a member of the Gotham Knights and than the Outsiders. She isn't really much closer to him than Steph or Harper Row.

In the original Cass is way more Barbaras daughter than the of Bruce.

[Fergus]

In the post flash point comics Duke actually lived at the manor for quite some time, and Bruce was trained by Bruce, Cass was just a member of the Gotham Knights and than the Outsiders. She isn't really much closer to him than Steph or Harper Row.

In the original Cass is way more Barbaras daughter than the of Bruce.

Did he? I know Duke has a legal guardian. His uncle. He was also said to live with the guy on his mini.

[Blight]

Even pre Flashpoint Cass was never really part of Bruce civilian life, and never lifed for example at the manor with him.
And the post flashpoint Cass is even less close to Batman (she is not really closes than the other Batgirls).

When it comes to her relationship with Bruce she is (based on the comics) simply not on par with Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian or even Duke.

You did read the Gotham Knights ongoing right? She did. What got Bruce in trouble when a case worker was looking into Jason Todd.

[Blight]

If I'm not mistaken, the adoption was never completed in Pre-Flashpoint, since Bruce died.

Also, the events of pre-Flashpoint aren't restored. DC just take what they want (they do not seem to have an interest in retaking Cassandra's adoption).

It actually went through. That was the whole entire point of Nightwing's "anger" at Cassandra even post Bruce's death. She was his kid. The adoption did go through. It just wasn't fully brought up because well-- DC gonna DC with Cass. If you don't think so then just look to her inclusion in Gates of Gotham. All of Bruce's "good" kids teaming up against a common threat (the Architect). It's ironic for all his hoopla Adam Beechen was right in Batgirl Vol. 2. He nailed it quite right on the treatment of the character in the bat books. How writers overlook her because she's well a girl, and looked more at Jason who was going through a much darker phase. It's a true pity Scott Snyder wasn't fully allowed to use Cass until the final half of his run again.

[km_sus]

Even if the adoption didn't go through before Bruce died (it did), why would Bruce not adopt Cass after he came back from the dead? It's kind of cruel to promise to adopt a kid but then not do it later. Does the Wayne offer for adoption have an expiration date?

[Aahz]

Did he? I know Duke has a legal guardian. His uncle. He was also said to live with the guy on his mini.

He moved in with his Uncle at the start of the mini iirc, afaik he lived at the manor from rebirth untill that point.