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  1. #151
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Do you guys prefer Mari drawing her powers from the Red through the totem, or would you prefer the totem itself be the power source? I’m cool with either, I do remember loving that arc McDuffie did way back when about Mari getting trapped in a false world created by Anansi. So I definitely want to keep that connection with the divine, I think there’s stuff to explore there given she wields a “pagan” relic but was raised by her Christian father who was a pastor.
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  2. #152
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do you guys prefer Mari drawing her powers from the Red through the totem, or would you prefer the totem itself be the power source? I’m cool with either, I do remember loving that arc McDuffie did way back when about Mari getting trapped in a false world created by Anansi. So I definitely want to keep that connection with the divine, I think there’s stuff to explore there given she wields a “pagan” relic but was raised by her Christian father who was a pastor.
    I like the idea of her channeling through the totem, from the Red, because I like the idea that Anansi is connected to The Red as well; which is why him and his webs are red at DC.



    I like to imagine her and the totem have a symbiotic relationship, she can't properly tap into her full potential without it and you can't tap into the full potential of it unless you are of Anansi's blood.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 02-20-2021 at 08:45 PM.
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  3. #153
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do you guys prefer Mari drawing her powers from the Red through the totem, or would you prefer the totem itself be the power source? I’m cool with either, I do remember loving that arc McDuffie did way back when about Mari getting trapped in a false world created by Anansi. So I definitely want to keep that connection with the divine, I think there’s stuff to explore there given she wields a “pagan” relic but was raised by her Christian father who was a pastor.
    I'm more for the totem being the amplifier for her god-given gifts. Like Animal Man, Vixen can access the Red and mimic the abilities of animals within 150 feet, without the torem.

    The totem just increase her range and guards her mind from certain animal behaviors.
    Last edited by LordAllMIghty; 02-20-2021 at 08:21 AM.
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  4. #154
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I prefer the Totem, but then I'm not fond of the Red, really, at all.

  5. #155
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I prefer the Totem, but then I'm not fond of the Red, really, at all.
    Interesting, why do you dislike the Red?
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  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Interesting, why do you dislike the Red?
    Mostly because it's retroactively applied to characters that weren't created it with it in mind. It often ends up changing their nature of their powers or how they work over time, and can even end up affecting personalities. Or in power ups (which I've been vocally against for various heroes). Also can end up adding a religious/spiritual element to what was previously purely scientific (not applicable to Vixen, of course), which is really not my flavor. Worse yet, it ends up creating a "hierarchy" of most/least connected. I'm also not a fan of "it's all connected" and when you have a force like this, it ends up connecting all the heroes (of a certain powerset) in a web. Oh, and big forces like this (certainly not just about the Red, it's just one of many) open the door to destiny or fate in what previously coincidence or choice for some heroes, and I really dislike fate and destiny as plot devices, finding it to remove agency from the characters involved. I'm usually okay with it if it was there from the character/story's inception, but I really do hate it when retroactively added. I'm not even a fan of the speed force, for mucking up something previously simple (and for being used as a plot device with no consistent behavior even moreso), and find the new forces even more problematic.

    Basically, it changes things for existing characters at times. Often in ways I find unnecessary or dislike. People's opinions vary - some think it's richer tapestry and adds depth. All in how you see it.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 02-20-2021 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #157
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Mostly because it's retroactively applied to characters that weren't created it with it in mind. It often ends up changing their nature of their powers or how they work over time, and can even end up affecting personalities. Or in power ups (which I've been vocally against for various heroes). Also can end up adding a religious/spiritual element to what was previously purely scientific (not applicable to Vixen, of course), which is really not my flavor. Worse yet, it ends up creating a "hierarchy" of most/least connected. I'm also not a fan of "it's all connected" and when you have a force like this, it ends up connecting all the heroes (of a certain powerset) in a web. Oh, and big forces like this (certainly not just about the Red, it's just one of many) open the door to destiny or fate in what previously coincidence or choice for some heroes, and I really dislike fate and destiny as plot devices, finding it to remove agency from the characters involved. I'm usually okay with it if it was there from the character/story's inception, but I really do hate it when retroactively added. I'm not even a fan of the speed force, for mucking up something previously simple (and for being used as a plot device with no consistent behavior even moreso), and find the new forces even more problematic.

    Basically, it changes things for existing characters at times. Often in ways I find unnecessary or dislike. People's opinions vary - some think it's richer tapestry and adds depth. All in how you see it.
    Well I respect your opinion, while I like the idea I guess it's not for everyone.
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  8. #158
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Totem being imbued with powers from the Red and after long exposure, the powers themselves start to rub off of Mari to a degree.

  9. #159
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I like the idea of Totem being imbued with powers from the Red and after long exposure, the powers themselves start to rub off of Mari to a degree.
    Because of her blood relationship to Anansi, I think she always had some mimicking abilities even before the totem.

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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I prefer the Totem, but then I'm not fond of the Red, really, at all.
    After the success of Swamp Thing and 'the Green,' it seemed like the rush was on to tie everyone to some primordial elemental whatsis. Red Tornado was an air elemental, Aquaman tapped into the water element, Firestorm was fire, Vixen, Animal Man and Beast Boy differently tied to 'the Red.' Definitely a turn off to me. She was a fine character before all that nonsense, IMO. I don't feel like the mad dash to grab the shiny new toy that was 'the Green' and get some of it for various other characters like Firestorm, Vixen, Red Tornado, etc. did any of them any real favors. If anything, it speaks to a writer feeling that the current backstory of a character is weak that they have to rush to grab at the new shiny and backfit it to a pre-existing character. (That said, I'm a total hypocrite and if Vixen's backstory, or the history of the Tantu Totem got tied somehow to Dr. Mist, in ancient days, I'd be all for that!)

    And, my preference, the totem was the catalyst to awaken her powers, but now they are *her* powers, and the totem is a bit of fancy bling she wears as a reminder. It is still tied to her powers and her origin, and some powerful sorcerer like Felix Faust or Wotan might be able to mess with her, or try to usurp her powers or cut her off from them, by using it as part of some ritual, so it's better if she keeps it secure, but if she left it in a lock box somewhere, she wouldn't 'lose her powers.' That's how I prefer it. More of an origin source than a constant necessary item like a power ring or the Ruby of Life.

  11. #161
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    I don't care for The Red but I love Mari's connection with Anansi. I guess I prefer the Totem helping her world it but the powers being her own.

  12. #162
    ☁ϟ Rosa Snarks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do you guys prefer Mari drawing her powers from the Red through the totem, or would you prefer the totem itself be the power source? I’m cool with either, I do remember loving that arc McDuffie did way back when about Mari getting trapped in a false world created by Anansi. So I definitely want to keep that connection with the divine, I think there’s stuff to explore there given she wields a “pagan” relic but was raised by her Christian father who was a pastor.
    Hmmm. I prefer her powers to be innate but I'd like it if them and the totem were gifts to her family from Anansi (kinda like Storm's power). I always thought of the totem as a "mystical amplifier" for her power anyway. Say, If she doesn't have it she can still mimic animals, hurt super durable characters via the mystical nature/origins of her power etc but only mimic one animal at a time. However, WITH the totem she should be doing all that AND stacking more than one animal trait or multiplying the animal trait I.e picture her tackling superman with the combined weight of a herd of elephants or punching with the strength of an entire ant colony and mimicking the abilities of fictional animals.


    Also, does anyone wonder if her animal spirits are visible to the other characters in universe? Cause that would be cool as hell
    Last edited by Rosa Snarks; 02-21-2021 at 07:53 AM.
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  13. #163
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Snarks View Post
    Hmmm. I prefer her powers to be innate but I'd like it if them and the totem were gifts to her family from Anansi (kinda like Storm's power). I always thought of the totem as a "mystical amplifier" for her power anyway. Say, If she doesn't have it she can still mimic animals, hurt super durable characters via the mystical nature/origins of her power etc but only mimic one animal at a time. However, WITH the totem she should be doing all that AND stacking more than one animal trait or multiplying the animal trait I.e picture her tackling superman with the combined weight of a herd of elephants or punching with the strength of an entire ant colony and mimicking the abilities of fictional animals.


    Also, does anyone wonder if her animal spirits are visible to the other characters in universe? Cause that would be cool as hell
    I asked this same question. apparently that answer is it's magic so it's does whatever. I'm guessing that means it's basically whatever the creative team using her at the time thinks it is. sometimes it's visible or tangible to others, sometimes they're not, depends on Vixen's whim.
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  14. #164
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do you guys prefer Mari drawing her powers from the Red through the totem, or would you prefer the totem itself be the power source? I¬’m cool with either, I do remember loving that arc McDuffie did way back when about Mari getting trapped in a false world created by Anansi. So I definitely want to keep that connection with the divine, I think there¬’s stuff to explore there given she wields a ¬“pagan¬” relic but was raised by her Christian father who was a pastor.
    I haven't been able to take the 'Red' seriously as a concept because around the time it was introduced somebody joked that every animal based hero gets their powers from the 'meat dimension'. It conceptually overlaps with the Emotional Spectrum, Speed Force and the Green with none of the benefits. It waters down unique characters by giving them a generic explanation.

    I like Animal Man drawing powers from the morphogenetic field (a much cooler name than the Red, imo) and that Beast Boy and Vixen might be tapping into it in their own ways but I prefer some ambiguity regarding that.

    I like how her powers are being handled in her own ongoing. I haven't caught up with the latest issues yet but I like the idea that she has powers without the totem (albeit less potent) and that she is a descendant of Anansi.
    Last edited by John Venus; 02-21-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  15. #165
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I haven't been able to take the 'Red' seriously as a concept since around the time it was introduced somebody joked that every animal based hero gets their powers from the 'meat dimension'. It conceptually overlaps with the Emotional Spectrum, Speed Force and the Green with none of the benefits. It waters down unique characters by giving them a generic explanation.

    I like Animal Man drawing powers from the morphogenetic field (a much cooler name than the Red, imo) and that Beast Boy and Vixen might be tapping into it in their own ways but I prefer some ambiguity regarding that.

    I like how her powers are being handled in her own ongoing. I haven't caught up with the latest issues yet but I like the idea that she has powers without the totem (albeit less potent) and that she is a descendant of Anansi.
    i also do not like and have never liked THE RED. If we do get to go forward with the story, that supposed linkage will be... aggressively modified.

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