Vixen Appreciation 2021

[lemonpeace]

I don't get the issue with the red people have, same way I don't get the issue with the other forces or the emotional spectrum. so the characters in the shared universe are connected through a common aspect of their shared universe....okay? I don't get how explaining something "waters it down" just because they connect.

i also do not like and have never liked THE RED. If we do get to go forward with the story, that supposed linkage will be... aggressively modified.

Mwahahahahahaha

not gonna hold you, that's doesn't sound appealing at all. I mean anything can work, and I guess "modified" could technically mean anything, but i'd rather read a story that expands on the universe, rather than revisionism to overwrite some other creator's idea.

[Redjack]

I don't get the issue with the red people have, same way I don't get the issue with the other forces or the emotional spectrum. so the characters in the shared universe are connected through a common aspect of their shared universe....okay? I don't get how explaining something "waters it down" just because they connect.



not gonna hold you, that's doesn't sound appealing at all. I mean anything can work, and I guess "modified" could technically mean anything, but i'd rather read a story that expands on the universe, rather than revisionism to overwrite some other creator's idea.

Vixen's connection to the Red is, itself, a retcon and "writing over" another writer's intent. So removing that connection or modifying it, is actually just clearing out an unnecessary add-on.

[LordAllMIghty]

I don't get the issue with the red people have, same way I don't get the issue with the other forces or the emotional spectrum. so the characters in the shared universe are connected through a common aspect of their shared universe....okay? I don't get how explaining something "waters it down" just because they connect.



not gonna hold you, that's doesn't sound appealing at all. I mean anything can work, and I guess "modified" could technically mean anything, but i'd rather read a story that expands on the universe, rather than revisionism to overwrite some other creator's idea.

Agree 100%

[LordAllMIghty]

Vixen's connection to the Red is, itself, a retcon and "writing over" another writer's intent. So removing that connection or modifying it, is actually just clearing out an unnecessary add-on.

I think Vixen connection with the "Red", was to connect her to Animal Man. Her connection to the Morphogenetic field/Red was pretty much cemented in Animal Man 48-50.

I guess you could call it a retcon but was an easy way to explain where she and Animal Man get their powers.

[Redjack]

I think Vixen connection with the "Red", was to connect her to Animal Man. Her connection to the Morphogenetic field/Red was pretty much cemented in Animal Man 48-50.

I guess you could call it a retcon but was an easy way to explain where she and Animal Man get their powers.

yep.

in a story that was about Animal Man.

it was unnecessary. she's already her own kind of magic. i'm a HUGE fan of every super-hero, even ones with superficially similar power-sets, being unique.

[LordAllMIghty]

yep.

in a story that was about Animal Man.

it was unnecessary. she's already her own kind of magic. i'm a HUGE fan of every super-hero, even ones with superficially similar power-sets, being unique.

I dont even think about it that much. It's an universal force connected to all life. It's Marvel 's Power Cosmic, meaning it allows the character to do whatever the writer wants.

Its a plot device. I think that's the reason I never questioned when Animal Man or Vixen did something crazy with their abilities.

[Tzigone]

I dont even think about it that much. It's an universal force connected to all life. It's Marvel 's Power Cosmic, meaning it allows the character to do whatever the writer wants.

Its a plot device. I think that's the reason I never questioned when Animal Man or Vixen did something crazy with their abilities.

See, we come at it from exact opposite positions. That's a thing I very much don't like. I think whatever the power/force/etc., the "rules" need to set up and then consistently applied. It feels lazy and cheap if the power can just do whatever the writer wants whenever they want it, with no boundaries or reason.

[lemonpeace]

yep.

in a story that was about Animal Man.

it was unnecessary. she's already her own kind of magic. i'm a HUGE fan of every super-hero, even ones with superficially similar power-sets, being unique.

but her being connected to other characters via The Red doesn't make her not unique, she still connects to it her own way, it just deepens the lore of the universe these share; the magical and ancestral nature if her connection all ready makes her plenty in that regard. plus, while I dont mind her having a familiar connection to Anansi, it's not like being a demigod or a descendant of a god as the basis for her power is super "unique" if we're keeping it g.

are we as human being any less unique as individuals just because we breath the same air?

[Redjack]

but her being connected to other characters via The Red doesn't make her not unique, she still connects to it her own way, it just deepens the lore of the universe these share; the magical and ancestral nature if her connection all ready makes her plenty in that regard. plus, while I dont mind her having a familiar connection to Anansi, it's not like being a demigod or a descendant of a god as the basis for her power is super "unique" if we're keeping it g.

are we as human being any less unique as individuals just because we breath the same air?

it makes her part of his mythology instead of her own.

hard pass.

(also, she's also not a demigod (according to me).)

[lemonpeace]

See, we come at it from exact opposite positions. That's a thing I very much don't like. I think whatever the power/force/etc., the "rules" need to set up and then consistently applied. It feels lazy and cheap if the power can just do whatever the writer wants whenever they want it, with no boundaries or reason.

ok, but it's not like their power doing whatever was a phenomenon that exclusively happened post The Red or for any of these universal forces, it just provides context for what their doing. take away the red Vixen would still be able to do whatever, but instead of saying it's because of the Red they'll just say "meh, it's magic". and really, how exactly is that any more unique or compelling? other than now it took some extra logistical hoop to retcon away this other writer's idea, until another writer comes along who liked the idea and jumps through his own logistical hoops to re-establish it.

this is the issue I have with a lot of writers (especially at DC but probably at Marvel too), stop trying to retroactively "fix" everything, it's a hack's move. if you're a creative then it's your job to be creative, so you should be able to figure out how to best apply the rule of this universe you're sharing in a way that best suits the character you are writing. I didn't like Duke getting shadow powers but if I'm a creator it's not my place to go and try to erase someone else's work, i'd just figure out how that ability can work because I'm not a dick or a hack

and I want to be clear about myword choice, I'm not saying Redjack is a dick or a hack for not liking or wanting to soft-retcon the red. who knows, maybe he has a great idea as an alternative or masterful comprise up his sleeve. I just personally don't think the type of revisionism we're playing with here is good storytelling practice.

[lemonpeace]

it makes her part of his mythology instead of her own.

hard pass.

(also, she's also not a demigod (according to me).)

not really, the is a universal concept. it doesn't belong to Animal man any more than the Emotional Spectrum belongs to Hal Jordan; it can easily be just as much an element of her mythos as it is his. Is Swamp Thing a part of Animal Man's mythos too now? because he's also connected via the Red since the Red and The Green are conceptually connected.

she isn't a demigod, she's the descendant of a god and inherited the power through that. it's functionally the same thing...

but hey, ultimately it's a taste thing I guess. so maybe your Vixen content isn't for me (meh happens) i'd still be interested to see how you build on Impala and the other Global Guardians.

[Redjack]

not really, the is a universal concept. it doesn't belong to Animal man any more than the Emotional Spectrum belongs to Hal Jordan; it can easily be just as much an element of her mythos as it is his. Is Swamp Thing a part of Animal Man's mythos too now? because he's also connected via the Red since the Red and The Green are conceptually connected.

she isn't a demigod, she's the descendant of a god and inherited the power through that. it's functionally the same thing...

but hey, ultimately it's a taste thing I guess. so maybe your Vixen content isn't for me (meh happens) i'd still be interested to see how you build on Impala and the other Global Guardians.

impala is a perfect example of what i mean by unique. he's a speedster but not a speed force speedster so there are a bunch of things he has in common with the flash family but there are a stack of things he can't do that they can and a bunch of things he can do that they can't.

[Celgress]

impala is a perfect example of what i mean by unique. he's a speedster but not a speed fore speedster so there are a bunch of things he has in common with the flash family but there are a stack of things he can't do that they can and a bunch of things he can do that they can't.

A valid point and one I agree with wholeheartedly. I hope we see more of him in the, not too distant future. *crosses fingers*

[Sutekh]

impala is a perfect example of what i mean by unique. he's a speedster but not a speed fore speedster so there are a bunch of things he has in common with the flash family but there are a stack of things he can't do that they can and a bunch of things he can do that they can't.

Part of my issue with 'the Red' or the Speed Force or the Emotional Spectrum is that when the inevitable event comes around where the Speed Force 'dies' or the Emotional Spectrum is tainted or usurped by crazy Oans or 'turned off' or the Red or Green or Grey or Plaid or whatever decides it hates humanity and wants to get rid of alla humans and make the universe clear for plants/animals/fungus/highlanders, the characters who have self-contained powers not tied to such forces get to point and laugh at all the folk whose powers are out of control or on the blink.

On the one hand, these sorts of connective threads are a useful narrative tool to drag a character into stories and interactions out of their wheelhouse (as they have with Animal Man and Vixen, who don't necessarily have much to do with each other, otherwise). That's a plus, obviously. The downside is that the current writer of Vixen doesn't get to say 'no' when he finds out that someone *else* has proposed a big event that involves the Red and Green and Grey and whatever going to war. And so his story plans get derailed as she becomes event fodder, along with Solomon Grundy and Swamp Thing and anyone else who is tied to these concepts.

It could be an opportunity, if the Vixen writer wants to lead the charge, and make sure it's a story about Vixen with agency over her own power, and not a story about Vixen as a bystander, watching the source of her power go off and do stuff without her (or, worse, hijacking her and making her fight on it's behalf).

[lemonpeace]

impala is a perfect example of what i mean by unique. he's a speedster but not a speed fore speedster so there are a bunch of things he has in common with the flash family but there are a stack of things he can't do that they can and a bunch of things he can do that they can't.

but the basis of his powers were his superhuman leg strength, his ability to run and a jump in a way that's reminiscent of his namesake. sure there are superficial similar but if you are portraying him as speedster in the same way as Flash you would be already messing up. if he was a speedster all that would mean is he can now easily crossover with the Flash. if someone had already established he were a speedster, I still wouldn't see the value of going out of the way to retcon that away rather than just further define his unique take on what it means for him to be a speedster, especially since even among speedsters there are some characters that can do things others can't and vice versa. Does Impala need to be a speedster? not really, and since he's not they can build him however way they want but that doesn't make the idea of the speedforce or other speedster any more or less good or unique. isolated doesn't mean "unique" and erasing connective elements of a character that exists in a shared universe is antithetical to the point of a shared universe.

for example, if you read manga every character has a unique ability but they all exist under the same power system, thus creating a cohesive universe for the story. if every power was its own power system that would be messy and annoying.

but again, like I said, your take on Vixen just ain't for me. it is what is is. i am still interested in Impala and the others. and who knows, maybe if they give you a shot you'll surprise me. or not, it's not like comics are the peak of storytelling, i dig what works and I try not too get too pressed about the things that don't

...except Doomsday Clock. I'll never forgive Doomsday Clock *shakes fist in anger*