Vixen Appreciation 2021

[LordAllMIghty]

Been thinking about it. From the wiki, it's just a mess - Though I don't know if some of these are preboot and some after. I mean, it's not like Smallville and Metropolis and Star City haven't moved around a good bit over the decades.

While it would be good to know a general region of where the country is located, and at least who one neighbor is, I'm much more interested in world-building - in what the country is like (especially if she's going to be there, but even if she's not, she might visit). How urbanized it is, what the major industries are, what religions are most followed and languages most spoken, what the system of government is, does it have a coast, what the median income is, what the GDP is (okay, for these last two, I don't really mean real numbers, but rather a sense of how economically prosperous it is and where it falls relative to other countries), etc. Is it improving for it's inhabitants or getting worse or staying the same? If there are any terrorist groups, I'd keep the fictional (if they're expected stay around), since you never know how the real world will change. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter as much if she's not going to be there, but if she is, I'd like it to feel like a real place. Also I just like world building and minutiae. Might not make into stories, but the Atlases and stuff are cool to me.

I would love to see Vixen return to Zambesi and confront her uncle.

[Tzigone]

I would love to see Vixen return to Zambesi and confront her uncle.

I'm kinda cool with him being quickly killed off, as he was the first time (even better if he wasn't her uncle, as I'm not a fan of evil relatives). I mean, I totally get the need for ongoing villains, I really do. I just do feel like when you have long-running characters, it ends up kinda like a hamster wheel where nothing ever changes in those terms. The villain is never permanently stopped. And that's okay for your older villains who don't as often kill people (or who are just thieves), but when they are committing mass murder every time they show up or ruling over an enslaved populous or so forth, it makes the hero look kinda pathetic.

I might enjoy her confronting him and stopping him, but only once, and she did that already in the 1980s, right? I wouldn't want to see her repeating the same story over and over (we have a thread on that). Though I suppose they brought him back after the last reboot? Hope they don't do so yet again after the next reboot.

[Tzigone]

Apologies if I'm just repeating something everyone knows. Just popped into my head. I recall that earlier on there was a discussion about how old Vixen was. And I just remembered the cancelled comic set her at 25 at the time of her superhero debut. Dick Grayson would have been 19 then, Barbara Gordon 26 and Zatanna probably around the same age. Obviously, retcons and reboots have reset/shuffled ages along the way.

[LordAllMIghty]

Apologies if I'm just repeating something everyone knows. Just popped into my head. I recall that earlier on there was a discussion about how old Vixen was. And I just remembered the cancelled comic set her at 25 at the time of her superhero debut. Dick Grayson would have been 19 then, Barbara Gordon 26 and Zatanna probably around the same age. Obviously, retcons and reboots have reset/shuffled ages along the way.

I always assumed se was 27 or slightly older. No older then 35

[Tzigone]

I always assumed se was 27 or slightly older. No older then 35

Do you find that characters that haven't had their own title or a long-running team one don't "age" as much to you? Perhaps it's because they don't have as many stories to fill the years as more heavily used characters? It's sort of the same with characters I haven't read it a while - I think of them the age they were when I first read them (like original Blue Devil, for example). But I like timelining, and keeping track of character's relative ages (particularly when first introduced or in eras I like them more in). I tend to peg characters relative to Dick or Tim, as both had some long years (15 for Dick and Tim and, of course, Dick's first year of college). And if the character is closely associated with another character that I read, they age along with them. But if they aren't, I tend to lose track. Then, even if without reboots, DC will sometimes age one more than another and throw everything off.

[OBrianTallent]

Because of her career, owning a company (does she still?) being in the Justice League et al, I always thought of her at about 28-30 range. She's not quite young as she's had plenty of time to build a brand, but she's definitely not on the older spectrum either.

[MoneySpider]

The funny thing about Vixen is that she can play around with her age and keep herself younger (if she wanted to) by using the reverse aging abilities of jellyfish.

[BlackClaw]

If there was any way you guys could revamp Zambesi if you were in charge of developing a Vixen solo, how would you do it?

[MoneySpider]

If there was any way you guys could revamp Zambesi if you were in charge of developing a Vixen solo, how would you do it?

I would make Zambesi a country known for it's magic, like Wakanda is known for it's technology. I'd probably also give Vixen a boyfriend who is a mage, probably on the level of Doctor Strange. His name would be Jamal (although I might give him an African name at some point). His superhero identity would be Midnight Mage, or just Mage for short.

[Vordan]

I would make Zambesi a country known for it's magic, like Wakanda is known for it's technology.

Same. Afromysticism as opposed to Afrofuturism sounds like a great way to separate the two. Unlike Wakanda though I think Zambesi should be more like Afghanistan. It’s been invaded multiple times, it’s a poor country, but it’s never been fully brought under the heel of its invaders all of whom eventually limped out with not much to show for their conquests.

I think it should be poor, and Mari should be a powerful political player because of her wealth, not just her superpowers. She represents the opportunity for the country to develop, but the problem is there’s a lot of disagreements about what it should develop into.

[Tzigone]

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd much rather focus on Mari as a business woman, rather than as a political power. In Zambesi or in the US (though I do think the US is more marketable). I liked the original setup planned (canceled one) very much.

I definitely don't want Zambesi as a magical country - it's too fetishistic to me. Like there can never be mundane African cities/countries even if you have dozens of mundane (in the sense of non-magic and often fairly ordinary large cities like Gotham, Star, Coast, or Metropolis). Give it a more real-world feel. Decide on level of economic development and degree of corruption - which both a stereotype and reality, depending on which African country you are working in. If she's killed the former evil leader, how many years ago was that, and how has the political landscape changed since then? Who are the major political parties, what are the biggest threats (I don't mind mystic villains or evil corporations or various other things). If she has attained political power since then, is it direct or indirect - I mean is she elected or just using money/influence? If the latter, then does anyone see her as a puppeteer, undermining democracy? How many women in power are there there, and what is the impact of her if there are few? How much do you want to integrate real world threats, religious strife (depends on region and religions), etc.?

Develop a strong civilian supporting cast, and a consistent setting. I'm not fond of travel-hero stories, I admit, so that's part of the reason, but I also think a consistent setting or group of characters is good for wider exposure and audience knowing what to expect they are going to get if ever she does get featured in other media as a solo. I favor the civilian supporting cast over other heroes because I like heroes that feel like part of our world, rather than a parallel society living within it that never interact with real people, though I can acknowledge they are less popular these days. More than that, when supporting cast (or villains) are borrowed from other heroes, there's a risk the parent property decides to use them again and totally screws with planned storylines. Plus, I do kinda think it gives a hero some weight when they bring great villains to the universe.

I'm especially hesitant to have the hero deciding the direction of the country. I don't want her a monarch or a monarch-except-in-name or nobility, as it were. Rich is fine, but I don't want the sense that she decides the direction of the country instead of the masses of people in the country, if you know what I mean. Not even if it's fighting other power-players, who would work for evil. It leaves a bad taste that the people themselves are incapable of directing their country or achieving their aims, and need a power-player to do it for them.

[John Venus]

I think Zambesi should resemble a modern African city to better contrast with the utopian ideal of Wakanda. By modern, I mean advanced African cities like this: https://face2faceafrica.com/article/...ities-africa/3.

[lemonpeace]

I'm tired of African countries needing to be mystical or "advanced" or poor corrupt and impoverished. Zambesi can have magically elements, sure because Vixen's powerset and mythos, but can Zambesi just be a regular contemporary African nation with regular cities and locales? I'd much rather that.

[chief12d]

I'm tired of African countries needing to be mystical or "advanced" or poor corrupt and impoverished. Zambesi can have magically elements, sure because Vixen's powerset and mythos, but can Zambesi just be a regular contemporary African nation with regular cities and locales? I'd much rather that.

This. Wakanda is a very specific concept and ideal and frankly I don’t think that there’s any equivalent that’ll ever really match up in terms of meaning or depth. Rather than trying to turn Zambesi into “Wakanda, but with magic” I’m far more interested in a writer embracing contemporary African politics and trends rooted in the real world as means of new storytelling.

I think that focusing on Vixen as a businesswoman is an ingenious direction to play up, we see with the popularity of figures like Rihanna and Kylie Jenner that a modern day “girl boss” has wide appeal. Having one who actually uses her wealth to make the world a better place would have massive potential. I still want there to be mystical elements and I do think magic should be apart of Zambesi/Vixen lore (a huge part in fact), but I don’t for care for the idea of Vixen being from some mystical paradise deep in the jungles of Africa. Magic doesn’t need to be a part of the method in that particular way IMO for Zambesi to be interesting or for Vixen to get fruitful stories from that setting.

[MoneySpider]

I don 't think anyone ever said that Zambesi would be a mystical, magical "paradise." It would just be a country known for it's magic. Not all magic is good magic. If we want Zambesi to stand out, it has to stand out in a way that makes people take notice. The way Zambesi is depicted now whenever it is brought up in any form of media, it doesn't stand out at all. At least to me it doesn't.

The way Zambesi seems to be depicted these days in any form of media is some small "village" (which I never understood) that is war-torn with warlords running around.