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  1. #211
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I am absolutely in love with United States of Cap. Every last page was great and looked great. I am loving the chemistry between the caps.


    "i almost peed on gettsyburg.." yes cap it was that funny.

    And nichelle wright will definitely be a break out.

    Attachment 111921
    Thanks for the heads-up there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    Anyone else got satisfaction when Sam threw that racist cop through the glass. Man what a relevant issue this was. though Dean Cain and Fox might complain about this too lol
    Yeah, that was satisfying after the debacle with the Americops back in Nick Spencer's run with Sam as Captain America. And yes, let them whine.
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  2. #212
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    Anyone else got satisfaction when Sam threw that racist cop through the glass. Man what a relevant issue this was. though Dean Cain and Fox might complain about this too lol
    I know i did i felt like a breathed a fresh piece of air when i read that and i loved that it was immediately followed up by a good cop saying what the sheriff was doing was wrong. I can understand getting lost in that system and feeling like your being unloyal for being honest. It was a very powerful issue and touched on so many modern themes imo with fairness.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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  3. #213
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Thanks for the heads-up there.



    Yeah, that was satisfying after the debacle with the Americops back in Nick Spencer's run with Sam as Captain America. And yes, let them whine.
    No problem. I am really shocked how much i am loving this book and the ideals it could mean. Because i feel if i was in the marvel universe given how i feel about my country i could easily see myself wanting to be a cap and i'm really connecting with this book. I think its really cool.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    No problem. I am really shocked how much i am loving this book and the ideals it could mean. Because i feel if i was in the marvel universe given how i feel about my country i could easily see myself wanting to be a cap and i'm really connecting with this book. I think its really cool.
    Indeed. This book is doing a really great job so far expressing that the ideal of America is a lot bigger and encompasses a lot more than some/certain people wish to believe.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #215
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Indeed. This book is doing a really great job so far expressing that the ideal of America is a lot bigger and encompasses a lot more than some/certain people wish to believe.
    Definitely. This issue was good. As has been mentioned there have been many themes that are relevant (and have always been relevant really) in America. The incarceration of Nichelle as well as that racist cop's biting words reminded me of current events, like Breonna Taylor. Did I cheer when Sam threw the cop through the glass? I understood where his actions came from. I think he had the right to do that. At the same time, the issue was nuanced. There was that one cop that stood down when he saw Cap. Nichelle helps a lot of downtrodden folks (and many downtrodden folks help her too). Some are African-American. Others are not. Her cause touches on race, but it isn't the number one factor. So again we're seeing some nuance. And that the spirit of Captain America can work in different situations.

    As for the other aspects of the issue, great to see the photonic shield again though I thought it would be more water proof. Speed Demon is giving me some creepy vibes. And I'm glad to see Superior taking a prominent role in the series. Looking forward to the next issue.
    "I am a man of peace."

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  6. #216
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    Might not be popular...but I think important questions need to be asked.

    The cop being a racist aside...was Nichelle justifiably incarcerated because she broke the law...or at least was suspected of breaking the law? Did Steve and Sam interfere with the proper functioning of the criminal justice system by helping a suspected criminal escape custody?

    The cop being racist means only that...he is a racist. Not that Nichelle was not justifiably arrested and locked up.

    And what Sam did is assault an officer. The cop being a racist does not negate that either.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 07-29-2021 at 04:43 PM.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Might not be popular...but I think important questions need to be asked.

    The cop being a racist aside...was Nichelle justifiably incarcerated because she broke the law...or at least was suspected of breaking the law? Did Steve and Sam interfere with the proper functioning of the criminal justice system by helping a suspected criminal escape custody?

    The cop being racist means only that...he is a racist. Not that Nichelle was not justifiably arrested and locked up.

    And what Sam did is assault an officer. The cop being a racist does not negate that either.
    Fair enough, though the issue being touched upon or addressed is that a lot of the laws that do end up on the books, much less getting enforced, are unjust on their face or unjust in how they're applied and enforced, and things like protest and even civil or nonviolent disobedience call attention to the injustices sometimes inherent in how those laws are made or enforced. Does it entirely justify what Nichelle may or may not have done? Maybe not, but at the same time, we shouldn't presume that the law is always fair and equitable, especially given how in the past, and even the present to an extent, the law has been more a tool of those with money, social standing, and/or power to use against those lacking any or all of those things.
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  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair enough, though the issue being touched upon or addressed is that a lot of the laws that do end up on the books, much less getting enforced, are unjust on their face or unjust in how they're applied and enforced, and things like protest and even civil or nonviolent disobedience call attention to the injustices sometimes inherent in how those laws are made or enforced. Does it entirely justify what Nichelle may or may not have done? Maybe not, but at the same time, we shouldn't presume that the law is always fair and equitable, especially given how in the past, and even the present to an extent, the law has been more a tool of those with money, social standing, and/or power to use against those lacking any or all of those things.
    I completely understand that...the rich and powerful get away with shit all the time...

    Not sure if you have ever watched the Jesse Stone movies with Tom Selleck based on the books. He is the police chief of a small Massachusetts town. He is asked a question on if the thinks something is right and he responds "I'm not in the right and wrong business....I'm in the legal and illegal business." That is where I am coming from with the questions.

    Yes Nichelle may have been fighting the good fight...but did she break the law doing so...and should she be willing to accept the consequences of her actions.

    For example say you are babysitting a kid and he sticks a fork in an electrical outlet and nearly kills himself. You grab him put him in your car and haul ass to the hospital because it is quicker than calling 911. While racing to the hospital well over the speed limit you cause one (or more) accidents and wind up being chased by the cops but you do not stop because you want to save the kid's life. Do you get to say that the law does not apply to you and you should suffer no consequences because you are doing the right thing to save the kid??
    Last edited by Chris0013; 07-29-2021 at 06:31 PM.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I completely understand that...the rich and powerful get away with shit all the time...

    Not sure if you have ever watched the Jesse Stone movies with Tom Selleck based on the books. He is the police chief of a small Massachusetts town. He is asked a question on if the thinks something is right and he responds "I'm not in the right and wrong business....I'm in the legal and illegal business." That is where I am coming from with the questions.

    Yes Nichelle may have been fighting the good fight...but did she break the law doing so...and should she be willing to accept the consequences of her actions.

    For example say you are babysitting a kid and he sticks a fork in an electrical outlet and nearly kills himself. You grab him put him in your car and haul ass to the hospital because it is quicker than calling 911. While racing to the hospital well over the speed limit you cause one (or more) accidents and wind up being chased by the cops but you do not stop because you want to save the kid's life. Do you get to say that the law does not apply to you and you should suffer no consequences because you are doing the right thing to save the kid??
    Fair enough, though the same argument could be made about costumed super-heroics/vigilantism in general. Yeah, they are (almost) all fighting the good fight and dealing with foes that the conventional authorities would be helpless to counter, but should they be given carte blanche to do so? Granted, since this is comics and the sympathetic viewpoint is on the heroes or protagonists, we're not necessarily meant to side with the obstructive (but arguably well-intentioned, barring bad actors here and there) authorities, but from that perspective, it's hard to say they're entirely in the wrong these days. Come to think of it, even Captain America back in the original Civil War realized in the end that all his fighting against the SHRA through violence and vigilantism was doing was making it harder to win the overall moral argument and so turned himself in to make his case and appeal to the public in a court of law (well, before he got shot "dead" on his way to trial).
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair enough, though the same argument could be made about costumed super-heroics/vigilantism in general. Yeah, they are (almost) all fighting the good fight and dealing with foes that the conventional authorities would be helpless to counter, but should they be given carte blanche to do so? Granted, since this is comics and the sympathetic viewpoint is on the heroes or protagonists, we're not necessarily meant to side with the obstructive (but arguably well-intentioned, barring bad actors here and there) authorities, but from that perspective, it's hard to say they're entirely in the wrong these days. Come to think of it, even Captain America back in the original Civil War realized in the end that all his fighting against the SHRA through violence and vigilantism was doing was making it harder to win the overall moral argument and so turned himself in to make his case and appeal to the public in a court of law (well, before he got shot "dead" on his way to trial).
    As well as the current storyline in Daredevil....he killed a guy and accepted the consequences and is in prison.

    It also goes to my comment on the whole Outlawed storyline...Sam and Riri have 2 of the most powerful weapon systems on the planet...but in the real world would you give a badge and a gun to a 14 year old who wants to make the world better?

    Personally I just want them to go deeper into these concepts than the simple right or wrong, black or white story telling that goes on most of the time.

  11. #221
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Semantics I know, but both Sam and Riri are 15, not 14.
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  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    As well as the current storyline in Daredevil....he killed a guy and accepted the consequences and is in prison.

    It also goes to my comment on the whole Outlawed storyline...Sam and Riri have 2 of the most powerful weapon systems on the planet...but in the real world would you give a badge and a gun to a 14 year old who wants to make the world better?

    Personally I just want them to go deeper into these concepts than the simple right or wrong, black or white story telling that goes on most of the time.
    That's a fair point, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Semantics I know, but both Sam and Riri are 15, not 14.
    Yeah, that's true.
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  13. #223
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Still no Cap ongoing. Instead, he's teaming up with Tony for five months.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...s-announcement
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  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Still no Cap ongoing. Instead, he's teaming up with Tony for five months.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...s-announcement
    That's gonna be fun.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #225
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Still no Cap ongoing. Instead, he's teaming up with Tony for five months.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...s-announcement
    Wouldn't be the first time (or probably the last) .

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