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  1. #46
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    This occurred to me the other day while rewatching Endgame - would anyone else be interested in a telling of what Steve did between the 5 years between the snap and the beginning of that movie? IDK, that support group scene was one of my favorite scenes. It just really showed what a big heart and the kind of compassion and empathy the character has.

    Also, 5 years is a goldmine of stuff draw from. So much unexplored territory there (I could see this being written by Mark Waid, btw. He's really the only choice for it).
    "Overturn everything! Can't he just write an executive order that says: 'Everything Trump did is now overturned. F**k that guy.' signed, Joe Biden."

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    This occurred to me the other day while rewatching Endgame - would anyone else be interested in a telling of what Steve did between the 5 years between the snap and the beginning of that movie? IDK, that support group scene was one of my favorite scenes. It just really showed what a big heart and the kind of compassion and empathy the character has.

    Also, 5 years is a goldmine of stuff draw from. So much unexplored territory there (I could see this being written by Mark Waid, btw. He's really the only choice for it).
    Indeed. There's a lot that could be done there.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #48
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Took a while, but I finally found this. Think it comes from a Wizard magazine special on Earth X. The article really captures Steve's essence, not just for Earth X, but in general:



    Here are my favorite sections of the narration:

    "Steve Rogers is all that remains of the American dream. That dream is now an ashen and decayed banner that drapes over him like a shroud. To Cap, America is synonymous with freedom. But now he fears that freedom is not just forgotten, but an altogether new notion...an undiscovered country.

    He is one of the few unchanged by Plague X. His exposure to the Super-Soldier Serum almost a century before has preserved and protected him. It has also kept him relatively meek. He is only a man at the peak of human ability in a world where humanity no longer exists.

    He is the last superhero in a world of superhumans"
    .

    These parts always got to me. The American flag he wears seems "ashened and decayed." By extension, his ideas seem ashened and decayed. That's a theme for Cap, isn't it? That his values are old and worn out. The theme is in line with the rest of the description. He's at the peak of human ability where there isn't anymore humanity. What good is he compared to superhumans and gods?

    But through it all, Cap still wears the flag. For him the ideals are not dead. And I always loved that part about the Super-Soldier Serum. It's old tech. But even after all this time, it's still protected him. All of these elements show that Captain America isn't a relic. Rather, he's needed more than ever.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    Took a while, but I finally found this. Think it comes from a Wizard magazine special on Earth X. The article really captures Steve's essence, not just for Earth X, but in general:



    Here are my favorite sections of the narration:

    .

    These parts always got to me. The American flag he wears seems "ashened and decayed." By extension, his ideas seem ashened and decayed. That's a theme for Cap, isn't it? That his values are old and worn out. The theme is in line with the rest of the description. He's at the peak of human ability where there isn't anymore humanity. What good is he compared to superhumans and gods?

    But through it all, Cap still wears the flag. For him the ideals are not dead. And I always loved that part about the Super-Soldier Serum. It's old tech. But even after all this time, it's still protected him. All of these elements show that Captain America isn't a relic. Rather, he's needed more than ever.
    Cosigned, especially nowadays. Looking forward to seeing his legacy get addressed in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, particularly given the U.S. Agent/"government-approved Captain America replacement" angle.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #50
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    Today's issue moved forward somewhat. I was so-so on the art. Based on how decompressed Coates writes, and how the situation played out at the end up the issue, I think there's at least one more arc under his run. Mostly because I can't see Steve's self-doubt being resolved in three-ish issues. I could be wrong though, maybe it's unresolved.

    I have complicated feelings on Steve musing about how the enemy was so obvious in WW2. While that might be true fighting Nazis, the broader societal problems were just as ingrained as they were today. Racism, homophobia, xenophobia, sexism were all still prevalent and also insidious, and also deeply embedded. It's fascinating to me how different writers have his takes on the forties compared to today, especially since he's been in the modern era ~10-15 years -- at least a third of his waking life. I know Brubaker occasionally mentioned how Steve sometimes forgot he was a Man Out of Time, but others not so much.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanotherclassic View Post
    Today's issue moved forward somewhat. I was so-so on the art. Based on how decompressed Coates writes, and how the situation played out at the end up the issue, I think there's at least one more arc under his run. Mostly because I can't see Steve's self-doubt being resolved in three-ish issues. I could be wrong though, maybe it's unresolved.

    I have complicated feelings on Steve musing about how the enemy was so obvious in WW2. While that might be true fighting Nazis, the broader societal problems were just as ingrained as they were today. Racism, homophobia, xenophobia, sexism were all still prevalent and also insidious, and also deeply embedded. It's fascinating to me how different writers have his takes on the forties compared to today, especially since he's been in the modern era ~10-15 years -- at least a third of his waking life. I know Brubaker occasionally mentioned how Steve sometimes forgot he was a Man Out of Time, but others not so much.
    That's an interesting take, and I would say, juxtaposed to real life, the enemy is just as obvious now as it was back in WWII. The difference, really, is in the will of the people to fight that enemy.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #52
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Cosigned, especially nowadays. Looking forward to seeing his legacy get addressed in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, particularly given the U.S. Agent/"government-approved Captain America replacement" angle.
    Agreed. Hoping to see what happens in the new Falcon/Winter Soldier series with these themes.

    Liked this week's issue. The scene of Red Skull supporters, Watchdogs, and Friends of Humanity in the park was timely and clever. All of these groups exist in the MU, yet really reflect the trends that are happening in the United States right now.

    Liked the dichotomy between Rogers and Red Skull. Storywise, Rogers begins the issue with a message of hope while Red Skull ends it with a message of fear. We've seen it before, but again, this conflict between the two resonates today.

    On a final note, I couldn't help but notice Coates' use of "the dream." If anyone has read his books or articles, you know how Coates' feels about the "American Dream" and how defending it has resulted in racism and discrimination in America. I wonder how his concept of the dream has changed (or not) throughout his writing of the series? Anyway, a good issue.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    Agreed. Hoping to see what happens in the new Falcon/Winter Soldier series with these themes.

    Liked this week's issue. The scene of Red Skull supporters, Watchdogs, and Friends of Humanity in the park was timely and clever. All of these groups exist in the MU, yet really reflect the trends that are happening in the United States right now.

    Liked the dichotomy between Rogers and Red Skull. Storywise, Rogers begins the issue with a message of hope while Red Skull ends it with a message of fear. We've seen it before, but again, this conflict between the two resonates today.

    On a final note, I couldn't help but notice Coates' use of "the dream." If anyone has read his books or articles, you know how Coates' feels about the "American Dream" and how defending it has resulted in racism and discrimination in America. I wonder how his concept of the dream has changed (or not) throughout his writing of the series? Anyway, a good issue.
    Indeed. "The Dream," such as it is, means different things to different people, and who gets to be included in or part of "The Dream" is something we're still fighting (literally, sometimes) and debating over to this day. I'd personally subscribe to Steve Rogers's take on "The Dream" any day, but sadly, it seems a lot more people are buying or starting to buy into the Red Skull, the Watchdogs, and the so-called Friends of Humanity these days. In that respect, I would say this book is more timely and needed than it's ever been.
    Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 02-18-2021 at 04:06 PM.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Indeed. "The Dream," such as it is, means different things to different people, and who gets to be included in or part of "The Dream" is something we're still fighting (literally, sometimes) and debating over to this day. I'd personally subscribe to Steve Rogers's take on "The Dream" any day, but sadly, it seems a lot more people are buying or starting to buy into the Red Skull, the Watchdogs, and the so-called Friends of Humanity these days. In that respect, I would say this book is more timely and needed than it's ever been.
    Agreed. I liked how Steve says how he'll take the time to listen to both sides. Now, I believe Sharon looked at him funny, maybe that's Coates' way of establishing a counterpoint to Steve. But I side with Steve in this regard.

    At the same time, I like Red Skull's characterization. He realizes that he doesn't have to foment hate. Humans have always had hate. He just has to redirect it. The message he gives at the end shows just how masterful he is at this. And he just casually does it because of his deep understanding of that side of humanity.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    Agreed. I liked how Steve says how he'll take the time to listen to both sides. Now, I believe Sharon looked at him funny, maybe that's Coates' way of establishing a counterpoint to Steve. But I side with Steve in this regard.

    At the same time, I like Red Skull's characterization. He realizes that he doesn't have to foment hate. Humans have always had hate. He just has to redirect it. The message he gives at the end shows just how masterful he is at this. And he just casually does it because of his deep understanding of that side of humanity.
    To me, the reason she looked at him funny about the whole "both sides" thing would be Coates representing the people who think everyone on the opposite side of the political spectrum from them is some flavor or other of bigoted @$$hole and therefore not worth the time or trouble to approach or reason with in good faith. Either that, or it reflects (and maybe rebukes) the presumption by a lot in mainstream political discourse that "both sides" are equally accountable or responsible for existing sociopolitical and cultural tensions and anxieties, even if it's one side in particular that's transparently inflaming those tensions and anxieties. That said, I would agree with you that Coates's take on the Red Skull is quite solid, not to mention rather chillingly accurate and relevant to our current times.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #56
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    The Mark Waid version of Captain America is among my all-time favorites.
    Hopefully someday, more stories from modern-day creators can either equal or even surpass Waid's notable runs on the Sentinel of Liberty (616):


  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    The Mark Waid version of Captain America is among my all-time favorites.
    Hopefully someday, more stories from modern-day creators can either equal or even surpass Waid's notable runs on the Sentinel of Liberty (616):

    Not bad.

    An interesting take on Steve's ruminations about his relationship with America --- or America's relationship with him --- in the recently released Captain America #27.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #58
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    The United States of Captain America announced. Mini written by Christopher Cantwell.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...th-anniversary
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The United States of Captain America announced. Mini written by Christopher Cantwell.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...th-anniversary
    Hopefully, it's a more respectful way to celebrate a Cap anniversary than his 75th anniversary when the whole HydraCap thing took place.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The United States of Captain America announced. Mini written by Christopher Cantwell.
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...th-anniversary
    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    Hopefully, it's a more respectful way to celebrate a Cap anniversary than his 75th anniversary when the whole HydraCap thing took place.
    Agreed. I can understand the point being made with HYDRA-Cap about how fascism can creep up on a society that's not on guard for it and subvert respected and revered iconography in that society to better spread itself, although I do agree the execution was rather lacking, especially once Secret Empire kicked off. That said, has anyone read the Captain America one-shot tie-in for King in Black, by any chance?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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