Champions Appreciation 2021

[Anthony W]

Well we got vocal minorities screaming diverse books should not exist.And I would toss in for Sam-I had no idea Sam was Nova until his 2016 series. Why? Because no stores around here STOCKED his first run. As far as I can tell it was because it wasn't Rich.

How strange, because we all know that shop owners love nothing more than stocking new number one issues. Sam got a huge push and creative team in writer Jeph Loeb (Who was a very important person at Marvel's television division at the time) and artist Ed McGuinness. Also the character was named after Jeph Loeb's son so you know he (and therefore Marvel) was invested in the character. The character was also appearing outside of comics as well appearances in cartoons.

And no one around you stocked his first run?

No one?

No one....at all?

Really?

[Anthony W]

That is just a convenient excuse some fans like to use to save face and not admit that Marvel gave the fans what they wanted, and the book flopped so hard it had the worst sales of any modern Nova book.

Sam Alexander's sales were already the worst sales of any Nova book. Nice try.

I repeat: Rich Rider came back after years, and not only he didn't move the needle, but completely tanked the book. So none of the Rich fans who were demanding his return showed up to support the book, and it's all Sam's fault? Please.

Yeah, it's almost as if they saw it as the desperate ploy that it was and stayed away. So yeah, that's all on Sam. Rich Rider fans don't want to share a book lmao.

The more likely scenario is that Rich fans DID show up to support the book, but they were simply a vocal minority and there wasn't much of an audience for a monthly Nova book in the Direct Market anymore, maybe because most of the people who were supporting a Nova book before lost interest with each relaunch.

Evil shops! (Who ordered the book) Vocal minorities (Who lack the ability to make people stop reading your title!) Marvel pandering! (except Marvel doesn't pander). At some point, maybe just maybe you have to admit that creating a new hit comic character is hard work. We have only had a handful in the last twenty to thirty years. Maybe the character wasn't that great.....but that would require introspection

[Digifiend]

I don't know much we're going to be seeing teen characters jumping onto adult teams.

The Avengers often have teen members. Since Secret Wars, the ANAD Avengers had Kamala, Miles and Sam, and the replacement roster after the Champions formed included Nadia, who was very briefly on both teams at the same time, until the end of No Surrender when that Avengers team disbanded. The current team has Ghost Rider Robbie Reyes. The Uncanny Avengers had a young Inhuman named Psynapse. The New Avengers had Wiccan, Hulkling and Squirrel Girl. Doreen carried over to the successor U.S.Avengers team as well. The most recent West Coast Avengers was almost all under 21, except for Clint Barton Hawkeye (who must've left the team before Outlawed, as otherwise he'd have counted as their mentor and the team wouldn't have been impacted). As I mentioned, the Dark Reign Mighty Avengers had Cassie Lang, Jonas Vision, and Amadeus Cho. Hickman's Avengers had a teenage Starbrand and Nightmask. The late 90s Busiek Avengers had Triathlon, and New Warriors alumni Firestar and Justice. Arguably, even the original roster from the 1960s had kids on the roster - Wasp, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were all no older than 20 when they first joined, and possibly just 18.

[skyvolt2000]

At some point, maybe just maybe you have to admit that creating a new hit comic character is hard work. We have only had a handful in the last twenty to thirty years. Maybe the character wasn't that great.....but that would require introspection

We actually have more than a few. The issue seems to be other companies are not seeing the toxic pushback to them that Marvel and DC keep dealing with.

Walking Dead & The Boys, Spawn, Something is Killing Children and others say HI. Books that did not have folks openly fight against their existence. Books that LOL can be diverse and no one has issues with them.

If Sam wasn't so great.... What is Rich Ryder's excuse? If he is better where is the book called Nova starring him? If Sam is that offensive.

As for introspection... tell that to the folks who have done nothing but attack any diverse character because they view them as a threat.

[CosmiComic]

Ikr. Introspection seems more lacking in fans of older characters

[Frontier]

The Avengers often have teen members. Since Secret Wars, the ANAD Avengers had Kamala, Miles and Sam, and the replacement roster after the Champions formed included Nadia, who was very briefly on both teams at the same time, until the end of No Surrender when that Avengers team disbanded. The current team has Ghost Rider Robbie Reyes. The Uncanny Avengers had a young Inhuman named Psynapse. The New Avengers had Wiccan, Hulkling and Squirrel Girl. Doreen carried over to the successor U.S.Avengers team as well. The most recent West Coast Avengers was almost all under 21, except for Clint Barton Hawkeye (who must've left the team before Outlawed, as otherwise he'd have counted as their mentor and the team wouldn't have been impacted). As I mentioned, the Dark Reign Mighty Avengers had Cassie Lang, Jonas Vision, and Amadeus Cho. Hickman's Avengers had a teenage Starbrand and Nightmask. The late 90s Busiek Avengers had Triathlon, and New Warriors alumni Firestar and Justice. Arguably, even the original roster from the 1960s had kids on the roster - Wasp, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were all no older than 20 when they first joined, and possibly just 18.

I think characters in their 20's is a different step from how old the Teen Trinity were when they became Avengers.

[Kurt Busiek]

The late 90s Busiek Avengers had Triathlon, and New Warriors alumni Firestar and Justice.

Triathlon wasn't a teenager.

In addition, for whatever it's worth, the Wasp turned 23 in AVENGERS 44, just shy of four years publishing time since AVENGERS 1. So it's possible she could have been 19 when the Avengers were formed, but unless we're going to postulate Marvel-time going faster than our-world time, she can't have been 18.

Wanda and Pietro, I figure as 18-19 when they show up in X-MEN 4, making them roughly the age of the X-Men (but older than Bobby), which would make them 20-21 two years later when they joined the Avengers. [This on the grounds that Spider-Man progresses in real time, pretty much, at least until he starts college, so Marvel Time doesn't really start compressing until later.]

kdb

[Chris0013]

Triathlon wasn't a teenager.

In addition, for whatever it's worth, the Wasp turned 23 in AVENGERS 44, just shy of four years publishing time since AVENGERS 1. So it's possible she could have been 19 when the Avengers were formed, but unless we're going to postulate Marvel-time going faster than our-world time, she can't have been 18.

Wanda and Pietro, I figure as 18-19 when they show up in X-MEN 4, making them roughly the age of the X-Men (but older than Bobby), which would make them 20-21 two years later when they joined the Avengers. [This on the grounds that Spider-Man progresses in real time, pretty much, at least until he starts college, so Marvel Time doesn't really start compressing until later.]

kdb

I would say that Jan was early 20s when the team was formed. I base this off the Avengers Origin Ant-Man and The Wasp comic that showed Jan to be in fashion school at the time...so after graduating high school...and old enough that her father did not mind her pursuing Hank.

[Anthony W]

We actually have more than a few.

Talking about Marvel Comics.

The issue seems to be other companies are not seeing the toxic pushback to them that Marvel and DC keep dealing with.

We're you around when Hal Jordan was replaced with Kyle Rayner? Spider-Clone Saga? Crisis? (The OG one) One More Day? As long as there has been superhero comics fans have been pushing back on storylines they felt were controversial.

Walking Dead & The Boys, Spawn, Something is Killing Children and others say HI. Books that did not have folks openly fight against their existence. Books that LOL can be diverse and no one has issues with them.

Could it be these books aren't seeing pushback because they are original titles making their own way? Surely you see the difference between that and legacy heroes we are discussing?

If Sam wasn't so great.... What is Rich Ryder's excuse? If he is better where is the book called Nova starring him? If Sam is that offensive.

I never said Sam was offensive, but I did take issue with a poster who claimed that Marvel tanked Sam's book by adding him. And while he doesn't have his own series he is at the forefront of the revamped Guardians Of The Galaxy. So at least he is....y'know....in a book.

As for introspection... tell that to the folks who have done nothing but attack any diverse character because they view them as a threat.

Or the people who claim to be down for the cause but never support the characters then are quick to blame someone when it fails, who like the idea of diverse characters more than the actual characters.

[4sake Baned]

Triathlon wasn't a teenager.

In addition, for whatever it's worth, the Wasp turned 23 in AVENGERS 44, just shy of four years publishing time since AVENGERS 1. So it's possible she could have been 19 when the Avengers were formed, but unless we're going to postulate Marvel-time going faster than our-world time, she can't have been 18.

Wanda and Pietro, I figure as 18-19 when they show up in X-MEN 4, making them roughly the age of the X-Men (but older than Bobby), which would make them 20-21 two years later when they joined the Avengers. [This on the grounds that Spider-Man progresses in real time, pretty much, at least until he starts college, so Marvel Time doesn't really start compressing until later.]

kdb

Always like when you pop in lol

[J. D. Guy]

Thank you i appreciate i.t.




Thank you, i truly do appreciate that. I'll still be on the board and on the creator showcase. I plan on getting back to putting some more artwork in the superheroes who happen to be black thread as well. It's fun.

edit: overall this is a great community.

Goodness, was that an extremely poor title for Marvel's Black Superhero Appreciation Thread.

[Digifiend]

Riri was meant to join the Avengers in IDW's Marvel Action Avengers book, but the license was yanked so it's been cancelled. I wonder if Marvel is planning a new all-ages line to replace Marvel Action, published in-house? If they do, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Champions involved.

[Frontier]

Riri was meant to join the Avengers in IDW's Marvel Action Avengers book, but the license was yanked so it's been cancelled. I wonder if Marvel is planning a new all-ages line to replace Marvel Action, published in-house? If they do, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Champions involved.

I imagine it's probably more of those original graphic novels like they've been doing with Miles, Kamala, and Squirrel Girl.

[Nerwrax15]

Preview for the final issue of the run

https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/kamal...ns-10-preview/

[Frontier]

Preview for the final issue of the run

https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/kamal...ns-10-preview/

Kamala's comment reminds me that I really thought she'd have to out her identity to resolve this at some point. I wonder if that was ever on the table.