Champions Appreciation 2021

[Spiderfan001]

Or how about the reverse, why can't digital comics come with an instore code for print where you can bring that to the shop and they send those collected vouchers to marvel to receive a percentage of the sold comics.To say there is no way to modernized the industry shows lack of creativity or lack of want. Or why not have comic shops turn more into a print center in some cases where you can take that digital code and get the comic bound and printed at a shop. I can think of easily 50 ways to modernize the industry if it's willing.

Yes well, mention all the ones you have thought most about.Maybe make a thread, this is all exciting stuff.

Again cool idea, but sales show the same thing.It's more precise though, but will cost a lot of money w/ no real benefits to Marvel so they won't ever do it.

I don't get the print idea, could you elaborate.Also it seems to take a lot of money up front which again is something I'm not so sure comics industry can afford rn.

[Spiderfan001]

So marvel should throw away money so shops can feel safe in the past? Doesn't make sense to me. How many comic shops are in a city, state, etc. What areas are they in. what about people who don't drive. So companies should basically ignore potential customers and growing a business for shops run by two or three people? Doesn't make sense to me. They need to modernize their business model.

It's not in the past.They still release them digitally.Your reasoning was that releasing them digitally first will help comic shops make decisions, this won't benefit Marvel at all.
And comic shops will hurt because of sales to classic characters, diverse characters won't see a change in sales from this digitally since they barely sell physically.

You haven't thought this through and are going against the points you made yourself.

[jwatson]

Yes well, mention all the ones you have thought most about.Maybe make a thread, this is all exciting stuff.

Again cool idea, but sales show the same thing.It's more precise though, but will cost a lot of money w/ no real benefits to Marvel so they won't ever do it.

I don't get the print idea, could you elaborate.Also it seems to take a lot of money up front which again is something I'm not so sure comics industry can afford rn.

Marvel doesn't need shops, shops need marvel. Marvel could make much more money advetising their comics at the end of a disney+ show or movie with free digital codes etc. That would get product directly into the hands of consumers. Most shops are for locals and their friends so there isn't much audience growth to be had in the stores and there doesn't seem to be much expansion on the way so just by the very fact the "importance" of shops is played up marvel is killing a large portion of their business. A large portion at that.

[jwatson]

If they are released digitally first then many people who are comic enthusiasts will buy it there, it would be a major blow to comic shops.
They can and do look at sales records and that's how makes said decisions.It's effective, a comics selling terribly at issue 17 isn't gonna skyrocket at issue 18 if there is no major change in the comic cast or creative team.

Any other ideas?They have to be benefit comic sales for lesser selling ones while not having negative effects on comic shops or marvel itself.

Your argument makes no sense. Why are digital videogame sells on the rise then? Digital gives anyone with an internet connection access, a store is not the same. Driving 5 miles for a comic is far different than rolling out of bed and ordering one. Not to mention less in gas means more in comics potentially. So again your argument makes NO sense.

[jwatson]

And also just another option, it would actually be more money in it for marvel to join a partnership with print industry like office depot or kinkos where you can get a digital code for them to print your comic and marvel basically covers the printing and binding cost which in a lot of cases isn't that much more expensive. It's not comics that are limiting or diversity, it's the shops.

[Spiderfan001]

Your argument makes no sense. Why are digital videogame sells on the rise then? Digital gives anyone with an internet connection access, a store is not the same. Driving 5 miles for a comic is far different than rolling out of bed and ordering one. Not to mention less in gas means more in comics potentially. So again your argument makes NO sense.

But they already sell the comics digitally.
Same as videogames, both are sold in store and digitally.

[jwatson]

But they already sell the comics digitally.
Same as videogames, both are sold in store and digitally.

And how heavily is the industry relying on brick and morter sales? we see that everyday. But guess what the difference is, there is a gamestop in almost every neighborhood or you can get games at walmart, bestbuy, target, the list goes on and on and on. The same can't be said for comics. also videogames usually have a bigger budget for in store, they have in store promotions for games, and usually have kiosk set up and despite all that the videogame digital industry is booming and companies are tallying those digital sales. I mean how many posts have we seen here trying to gather sales from comichron as though it really means something. The question i believe is is their growth for the comic industry. There is plenty. Shops are not the industry, they were where the industry began, point blank. They are antiquated.

[jwatson]

Now my favorite thing. Numbers. There are 2000 direct market comic shops. Now let's say they are evenly distributed between the states, which they are not, there are 50 states and we will leave the terrotories off. 2000/50 would mean there 40 comic shops in each state if all things equal. Ct alone has 169 municipalities meaning that there are 129 undeserved municipalities when it comes to comics in CT alone. So where are those people suppose to get their comics, how much in gas, how far are they suppose to travel. Already money is potentially lost from 129 municipalities there are at least 35 walmart's there so not as big but now let's go to FL where if there are only 40 comics shops, guess what there are 385 walmarts in FL. How can 40 comic shops service FL.

[Chris0013]

"Bias" lmao.If I'm not ordering comics w/ diverse characters, it's not because of bias against diveristy.It's because money doesn't grow on trees and the comics aren't that good.If they were really good, like Immortal Hulk people would buy them.In comparison Champions was terrible.

You can't blame people calling them biased for not buying bad or mediocre comics that happen to feature diverse cast.

As for owners it's their livelyhood. They can't afford to buy books that don't sell, and as I stated the legacy books like champions don't sell anywhere near the levels of the classics even in digital only comparisons.

I don't understand why you are villainizing these shop-keepers or most of the readers.It's not like comics sell amazing, they don't.Specially in physical.

It doesn't even matter that they(Shopkeepers) have a bias, they can't and won't let it affect their profits.If champions starts selling more than the books they keep, champions goes on and the other comes off.
If Cap getting replaced sells well, it'll be there regardless of wether the owner likes it.

OMD still sells, even though owners and most readers don't like the story.One of the owners I know doesn't like Batman much, he feels he is overrated(He's a supes fan).Yet the comic section in his shop is stocked to the brim w/ Batman comics.He likes Ms Marvel of all characters yet doesn't keep her comics or not to the extent of others because people don't by it.He's hoping the show makes her more popular though.

I can't tell why you think everyone in comics industry are r*cists and/or s*xists (cenosring because CBR keep censoring random words, so not taking chances w/ this) and hates diveristy characters.Most people aren't(not to say no one is, they are some and they need to go ASAP) from what I've seen and there are many bigger factors than race and gender of both people and characters in play, most importantly money for shopkeepers and readers, and quality of book and getting into newer characters for readers even more.

Exactly this...it is business not bias. Comics and comic shops are a business...they are not going to stock (or not stock as many of) something that doesn't sell.

[skyvolt2000]

And comic shops will hurt because of sales to classic characters, diverse characters won't see a change in sales from this digitally since they barely sell physically.

Miles Morales, Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl, Riri Williams, Ms Marvel & Static-have more solo issues than "Classic" characters like Storm, Antman, Jean Grey, Cyborg, Sue Richards and many others that many want to die on a hill for.

Diverse books from other companies are not killing stores.

The major difference is when it comes to say Stray Dogs there will NOT be 50 copies ordered that results in 40 unsold issues. Stores order say 10 and 10 sell OUT. So when you get reprints it's because they SOLD OUT in the store.
Unlike Batman where we get 2nd-5th while stores still have many of the first printing in stock.

Most shops are for locals and their friends so there isn't much audience growth to be had in the stores and there doesn't seem to be much expansion on the way so just by the very fact the "importance" of shops is played up marvel is killing a large portion of their business. A large portion at that.

Ms Marvel and Miles are not killing comic book stores. What is really killing them??? 95% of the stuff they sell is available at CHEAPER prices at Target and Wal-Mart.

Aside from floppies and SOME trades nothing is comic book store exclusive. The large portion are NOT going to bother hunting down comic book stores.

I mean how many posts have we seen here trying to gather sales from comichron as though it really means something.

Ploys to attack diverse books. Still does not reveal how many copies a store SOLD to someone.

The issue that we are having is stores have ZERO issues over ordering "classic" folks. Yet will whine about a book like Champions-while their bins and clearance racks are PACKED with classic folks that are NOT selling beyond what is ordered.

Midtown comics constantly has sales and it's not Champions leading it, it's Batman and classic folks. A Superman fan could save 50-70% (with shipping) buying his book off that site.

Marvel & DC only look at ORDERS to the store. If every store was made to order based on Final Order Cutoff or prepaying for a book-I bet those numbers would look way different.

[CosmiComic]

Marvel doesn't need shops, shops need marvel. Marvel could make much more money advetising their comics at the end of a disney+ show or movie with free digital codes etc. That would get product directly into the hands of consumers. Most shops are for locals and their friends so there isn't much audience growth to be had in the stores and there doesn't seem to be much expansion on the way so just by the very fact the "importance" of shops is played up marvel is killing a large portion of their business. A large portion at that.

Why doesn't marvel do that, though? I know they want to pander to fans of older stuff but considering how big these movies are with the ga, they seem to be missing an opportunity to further popularize the source material

[Spiderfan001]

And how heavily is the industry relying on brick and morter sales? we see that everyday. But guess what the difference is, there is a gamestop in almost every neighborhood or you can get games at walmart, bestbuy, target, the list goes on and on and on. The same can't be said for comics. also videogames usually have a bigger budget for in store, they have in store promotions for games, and usually have kiosk set up and despite all that the videogame digital industry is booming and companies are tallying those digital sales. I mean how many posts have we seen here trying to gather sales from comichron as though it really means something. The question i believe is is their growth for the comic industry. There is plenty. Shops are not the industry, they were where the industry began, point blank. They are antiquated.

Your point was to make more sales for lesser selling comics with a focus on comics w/ diverse casts.
You said digital is a better medium for them.

Now you have come to a point where you willing to hurt shops to the point of them shutting down w/ no benefit.How is shutting down comic shops helpful in selling those comics more?It's not, comics are already sold digitally.If you want to but them, you can from your house.As you said you love numbers, but these are humans too.Just because you don't like the choices they make for a living doesn't mean they are disposable.For someone criticizing others "bias", you really treat putting thousand at minimum out of business very lightly.

As for your sales argument, Marvel should provide sales numbers.But if a book gets cancelled early on and multiple times, it's safe to say it's not selling well.Comichron may not be as accurate as we want, but it's better than nothing.How is selling comics digitally getting us numbers?

You have diverted from your original point, thrown the entirety of comic shops under the bus and still not shown an Idea that will work.

[jwatson]

Why doesn't marvel do that, though? I know they want to pander to fans of older stuff but considering how big these movies are with the ga, they seem to be missing an opportunity to further popularize the source material

My only guess is antiquated staff. I use to run the print department at office max and back to school is HUGE, and before officedepot took over we use to go into the schools and bring them supplies and pick on school and they won like laptops we had that were discontinued etc. and a lot of other things. Now imagine marvel giving out digital codes to some of these places to get kids into reading books. My nephew and neices sure know how to use that nintendo, playstation, and xbox online store to get games and dlc. I really wish i knew because they are throwing a ton of potential customers away for a status quo that can not grow in this digital age.

[jwatson]

Your point was to make more sales for lesser selling comics with a focus on comics w/ diverse casts.
You said digital is a better medium for them.

Now you have come to a point where you willing to hurt shops to the point of them shutting down w/ no benefit.How is shutting down comic shops helpful in selling those comics more?It's not, comics are already sold digitally.If you want to but them, you can from your house.As you said you love numbers, but these are humans too.Just because you don't like the choices they make for a living doesn't mean they are disposable.For someone criticizing others "bias", you really treat putting thousand at minimum out of business very lightly.

As for your sales argument, Marvel should provide sales numbers.But if a book gets cancelled early on and multiple times, it's safe to say it's not selling well.Comichron may not be as accurate as we want, but it's better than nothing.How is selling comics digitally getting us numbers?

You have diverted from your original point, thrown the entirety of comic shops under the bus and still not shown an Idea that will work.

Like you said it's a business. Marvel does not owe these companies anything. Why should marvel shoot themselves in the foot to help out shops that don't want to shoot themselves in the foot to grow customers. You can't have it both ways. Your saying marvel should leave money on the table so shops can get what they can "afford" And why do you need those numbers. Comic sales should be for internal use only. It makes no sense from a business standpoint to share your sales unless your at an investor meeting. Fans are not stockholders they are customers.

And what can i say i went to school for business so i think in terms of business when i'm talking about business. And it's a flat out lie to act like comics don't have room for growth or these 2000 shops spread out are the end all be all. How much community outreach are they doing to get foots in their stores. A business should act like one and that means not throwing away good green.

Also as a consumer if i can't go into a comic shop and find what I am looking for, especially something as popular as HOX/POX then that comic shop isn't doing much for the industry or the companies at all.

[Spiderfan001]

Miles Morales, Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl, Riri Williams, Ms Marvel & Static-have more solo issues than "Classic" characters like Storm, Antman, Jean Grey, Cyborg, Sue Richards and many others that many want to die on a hill for.

Diverse books from other companies are not killing stores.

The major difference is when it comes to say Stray Dogs there will NOT be 50 copies ordered that results in 40 unsold issues. Stores order say 10 and 10 sell OUT. So when you get reprints it's because they SOLD OUT in the store.
Unlike Batman where we get 2nd-5th while stores still have many of the first printing in stock.



Ms Marvel and Miles are not killing comic book stores. What is really killing them??? 95% of the stuff they sell is available at CHEAPER prices at Target and Wal-Mart.

Aside from floppies and SOME trades nothing is comic book store exclusive. The large portion are NOT going to bother hunting down comic book stores.



Ploys to attack diverse books. Still does not reveal how many copies a store SOLD to someone.

The issue that we are having is stores have ZERO issues over ordering "classic" folks. Yet will whine about a book like Champions-while their bins and clearance racks are PACKED with classic folks that are NOT selling beyond what is ordered.

Midtown comics constantly has sales and it's not Champions leading it, it's Batman and classic folks. A Superman fan could save 50-70% (with shipping) buying his book off that site.

Marvel & DC only look at ORDERS to the store. If every store was made to order based on Final Order Cutoff or prepaying for a book-I bet those numbers would look way different.

When I say classic characters I mean Spider-man, superman , batman, etc.These aren't on that level
Also all the characters you mentions are team characters (except ant-man).I assure you we have more X-men, Justice League and Fantastic four issues than of Miles, Riri, Moon girl and Squirrel girl.
This is such a bad point, all these character appear in team books, it's like comparing someone working a team to someone working solo.The team is much more successful but you invalidate individual members because they were part of it.

Why would store order books if it doesn't sell.And while Miles and Riri may say 10, Batman and Spider-man sell a 100.We have charts for this and they are always much higher.And I actually have been to multiple stores and talked to the owners.What's you source?

Again why would they order more if it doesn't sell?You do realize they are business men/ women who have been in this for decades.they are much smarter and you and me because they do this for a living, and have experience,Hands on experience.

You are talking hypotheticals and theories.It's borderline insulting, it's like telling an architect how to build a building because you look at designs and have a taste for it.Like who do you think knows what they are doing:-

1)You, who has probably never owned a store or sold comic books at that scale and does comics for a hobby(If I am wrong please let me know, Idk you).Also your comparison of characters shows how much you actually do know.
2)Or a guy whose been doing this for decades and his entire life is dependent on it.You really think he's gonna over order for decades, it's his life.Not a hobby like yours and mine and most people here


I'mma show this to him next time I go, we're gonna have a good laugh about this