Rachel Anne Summers (Grey) 2021

[Zelena]

I am not sure? Maybe? when Jean was the Silver Phoenix and met death as the construction worker?

Indeed, Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force is different from everyone else's including Rachel. I think the name was to help give Rachel her own unique Phoenix identity apart from Jean.

I think that it is Rachel’s relationship with the Phœnix that is different from everyone else: the others have received the Phœnix Force while they were adults and Rachel, when she was quite young…

Now, is it that important when today’s writers refuse to acknowledge all the experience Rachel has received when she was the Phœnix…

[Askani's Flame]

I am not sure? Maybe? when Jean was the Silver Phoenix and met death as the construction worker?

Indeed, Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force is different from everyone else's including Rachel. I think the name was to help give Rachel her own unique Phoenix identity apart from Jean.

I don't think so. I know she had some in depth conversations but I don't think Death ever referred to her as the Starchilde as it did with Rachel in that Excalibur issue.

I think that it is Rachel’s relationship with the Phœnix that is different from everyone else: the others have received the Phœnix Force while they were adults and Rachel, when she was quite young…

Now, is it that important when today’s writers refuse to acknowledge all the experience Rachel has received when she was the Phœnix…

At the time, yes her connection was different from when she became connected with the Phoenix Force as a host/avatar. But since then one could argue that the Cuckoos, Hope, and QQ all received it around the same time as Rachel if not a little younger. The key difference now is that with the Uncanny 140.5 reveal Rachel is affirmatively and uniquely a child of Jean Grey, Cyclops, and the Phoenix Force.

Now to answer your question, who knows. I *think* at this point Leah has tried to undo some of the awful writing that Claremont, Yost, and Guggenheim did to her in terms of power levels and skills. Yost had the most in-story rationale for why her skills decreased (even if it was a garbage reason), but the others offered no real explanation as to why any and all experiences Rachel has as Phoenix were swept under the table. Were they afraid she was too powerful otherwise? One can only grasp at straws. And really I don't know that we'll see any conversation around Rachel and the Phoenix again unless it's in context to her and Thor being children of the PF or a side comment about her being a host. Rachel's time and experience as the host and avatar contradicts most of what Marvel has been forcing down readers throats about it being a mostly harmful and overpowering entity. It's why she was sidelined during AvX for the most part. It's why she hasn't had any real role in regards to the Phoenix Force including in the Jean Grey series. Given the removal of the "X" aspect from the Phoenix Force these days, we won't see anything come out of it.

[Phoenixx9]

I think Rachel needs to forget the Phoenix and move on with her life without it. She should get a new codename not born of her Mother nor of the PF, but something unique to her. Also a good costume.

[Mercury]

The key difference now is that with the Uncanny 140.5 reveal Rachel is affirmatively and uniquely a child of Jean Grey, Cyclops, and the Phoenix Force.

That issue makes clear that the White Phoenix is “both, as always,” Jean and the Phoenix Force 😘

[Devaishwarya]

I always noted the significant difference in how both women became Phoenix.

When Jean encountered the PF she was under great stress to save her fellow X-Men and even after she herself didn't survive but was left in suspended animation while the PF took her soul and likeness. (going by the retcon) The PF became Jean.

When Rachel became Phoenix for the first time she fully and willingly embraced and accepted ALL that the PF embodies...that transition was effortless and seamless.
Rachel became the Phoenix.

[Mercury]

I always noted the significant difference in how both women became Phoenix.

When Jean encountered the PF she was under great stress to save her fellow X-Men and even after she herself didn't survive but was left in suspended animation while the PF took her soul and likeness. (going by the retcon) The PF became Jean.

When Rachel became Phoenix for the first time she fully and willingly embraced and accepted ALL that the PF embodies...that transition was effortless and seamless.
Rachel became the Phoenix.

I’ll have to pull up the source (later because I’m in the middle of a grueling assignment), but part of this has to do with the fact that 1) Jean manifested the Phoenix Force more fully than anyone has, i.e., her bond with it wasn’t fragmented/fragmentary, and 2) as some have noted, Rachel was born from a Jean bonded with the P.F. However, Claremont, who created both the Phoenix Force and Rachel, sees Jean as the one that is inseparable from it.

Here’s one source from 2012:



https://web.archive.org/web/20170617...wolverine.html

I’ll write more later or tomorrow!

[Phoenixx9]

To add to what Mercury wrote, it was stated in-comic that Jean bonded to the Phoenix had a power second only to that of the Creator.

[Devaishwarya]

I was opining on the exact moments both women connected with and became Phoenix...only those singular moments in and of themselves. And the ease with which Rachel seemed to control and use that power compared to Jean's difficulties early on.

That said, despite what Claremont said "power second to none" and all that (he was always prone to gross hyperbole) the retcon (not of his choosing or liking) of the PF stealing Jean's soul and physical identity while the 'real' Jean lay in suspended animation in Jamaica Bay suggests that the Phoenix was acting as the Phoenix just in Jean's form so...six of one....

[Mercury]

I was opining on the exact moments both women connected with and became Phoenix....

It was glorious, wasn't it? Cover-worthy, in fact. And still iconic.

[Phoenixx9]

It was glorious, wasn't it? Cover-worthy, in fact. And still iconic.

YES!!

The Original Phoenix!

[Mercury]

Now, before we get mired in the petty and low-brow frivolities of divisive detractors, let's celebrate their bond...

[Mercury]

[Mercury]

[Devaishwarya]

LOL...."petty and low-brow detractors"...I'm purloining that.

[WallStreeter]

I was opining on the exact moments both women connected with and became Phoenix...only those singular moments in and of themselves. And the ease with which Rachel seemed to control and use that power compared to Jean's difficulties early on.

That said, despite what Claremont said "power second to none" and all that (he was always prone to gross hyperbole) the retcon (not of his choosing or liking) of the PF stealing Jean's soul and physical identity while the 'real' Jean lay in suspended animation in Jamaica Bay suggests that the Phoenix was acting as the Phoenix just in Jean's form so...six of one....

Jean was Phoenix in the Morrison run and had absolutely no issues with controlling the Phoenix.