Rachel Anne Summers (Grey) 2021

[Phoenixx9]

I've always wondered about the moment Rachel claimed the Phoenix Force in her mother's name in UXM 199. Was it (the PF) just hovering around the holoempathic crystal waiting for Rachel to show up, and call out to it?

Lilandra gave the Greys a Holoempathic Matrix Crystal with a slightly-shifting image of Jean. It contained the essence and/or personality of Jean herself. When one touched it or held it, they got to see and feel as if Jean was really there with them in person. (I believe each person could get a slightly different vibe off of this.)

There was no Phoenix or Phoenix Force associated with it.

The PF had allowed Rachel access to E-616 and so was there watching when Rachel touched the globe and called out. The PF answered by instilling some of it's power. I know it looks as if it came from the globe, but it did not.*


*Interesting Side Note of my Interest: A snow globe was used in both Carrie original movie and also in remakes and in Carrie 2!

[Askani's Flame]

So, using this video that Marvel uploaded about the Chris Claremont Paragon Collection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVSQN9hCxE&t=186s

I was able to pull some spoilers out for Uncanny X-Men 140.5 and also get the general plot of the thing. Hence, I'm not leaking anything since this is all data that Marvel gave to us in that video. Anybody watching it could have gotten the same info.

So, that's that. If you guys have any insights or can fill in the missing dialogue yourself using deblur effects and stuff, maybe we can find some more gems like how Bishop came to this past and all. There's a lot in there I wasn't able to get, but some of the stuff Claremont has hinted at is very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets picked up in his own X-Men Legends arc.

So is this REALLY in continuity or is this Claremont continuity? Like I remember us discussing this previously, but this seemingly changes a lot of the canon history of Rachel and Jean/Phoenix of 811 and is tucked away in some omnibus that many aren't going to see due to the price tag.

I always assumed it was the Phoenix imprint left in the crystal which Rachel was able to draw from. There was a Cockrum issue where the crystal was briefly shown (I think when Arcade was kidnapping the X-Men's friends and family) and Storm checks up on the Greys. It always seemed like the crystal could have been a backdoor to bring Jean back. It's weird though that right after UXM 199, Jean encounters the crystal in FF 286 and she encounters the Phoenix presence but she doesn't see anything with Rachel even though Rachel left her own imprint next to Jean's.

I blame the writers and editors on missing that plot point. Remember Claremont was left out of anything to do with Jean's return, so it's likely that the FF writers weren't reading or communicating with Chris and missed that from UXM 199. Of course it was later revisited and Rachel's essence was in fact there after Days of Future Present.

[Drexelhand]

So is this REALLY in continuity or is this Claremont continuity? Like I remember us discussing this previously, but this seemingly changes a lot of the canon history of Rachel and Jean/Phoenix of 811 and is tucked away in some omnibus that many aren't going to see due to the price tag.

It's in continuity, the Marvel Made Paragon website says so and I'd bet it gets released in the X-Men Legends trade (with the Chris Claremont Special probably being released in there too) and on the Marvel Unlimited app. It doesn't change too much if you think about it, just adds some context as to why Rachel is called Starchilde.

[Phoenixx9]

I always assumed it was the Phoenix imprint left in the crystal which Rachel was able to draw from. There was a Cockrum issue where the crystal was briefly shown (I think when Arcade was kidnapping the X-Men's friends and family) and Storm checks up on the Greys. It always seemed like the crystal could have been a backdoor to bring Jean back. It's weird though that right after UXM 199, Jean encounters the crystal in FF 286 and she encounters the Phoenix presence but she doesn't see anything with Rachel even though Rachel left her own imprint next to Jean's.

I do not think Rachel really left her imprint there. Remember, she actually broke the crystal. Off panel, it seems the PF restored the Crystal as it was originally. She did not want the Greys....her "grandparents" in another reality.....to know that she broke into their home whie they were away and destroyed the Crystal of Jean. All was put back as originally found.

[whitecrown]

I blame the writers and editors on missing that plot point. Remember Claremont was left out of anything to do with Jean's return, so it's likely that the FF writers weren't reading or communicating with Chris and missed that from UXM 199. Of course it was later revisited and Rachel's essence was in fact there after Days of Future Present.

The confusing thing is that Claremont was allowed to rewrite some of FF 286 since John Byrne's plan was to make the Phoenix a malevolent entity and Jean purposefully forced her humanity onto the Phoenix to stop her. Since that was the scene with the crystal, Claremont could have included something with Rachel or at least alluded to another presence. I suppose headcanon could be that Jean's psyche was still fragile from the Phoenix revelation that she wasn't ready to learn about Rachel yet, so the Phoenix hid Rachel's essence from her, since even after Inferno, Jean wasn't exactly welcoming towards Rachel. By the time she learns of Rachel's existence, that must be why Rachel's essence suddenly appears in the crystal for Jean.

[whitecrown]

I do not think Rachel really left her imprint there. Remember, she actually broke the crystal. Off panel, it seems the PF restored the Crystal as it was originally. She did not want the Greys....her "grandparents" in another reality.....to know that she broke into their home whie they were away and destroyed the Crystal of Jean. All was put back as originally found.

So Rachel didn't repair the crystal herself then? It's been a while since I last read UXM 199 so I was under the impression she fixed it with her powers after leaving her essence in it.

[Phoenixx9]

So Rachel didn't repair the crystal herself then? It's been a while since I last read UXM 199 so I was under the impression she fixed it with her powers after leaving her essence in it.

I never saw rachel fix it. I was mad at first when i saw what she did....and then just left it that way too. I think off-panel the PF reformed it and restored jean's essence. I remember seeing it somewhere and it was fixed with only Jean.

I believe there was a What-If? story where I think jean and rachel were in the crystal. Jean even talked to live Rachel and Jean was wearing a combo of Marvel Girl minidress and Green Phoenix costumes. But I cannot remember anything else about the story.

[whitecrown]

I never saw rachel fix it. I was mad at first when i saw what she did....and then just left it that way too. I think off-panel the PF reformed it and restored jean's essence. I remember seeing it somewhere and it was fixed with only Jean.

I believe there was a What-If? story where I think jean and rachel were in the crystal. Jean even talked to live Rachel and Jean was wearing a combo of Marvel Girl minidress and Green Phoenix costumes. But I cannot remember anything else about the story.

It's automatically fixed when Jean encounters it in FF 286 because I remember that after her vision of her encounter with the Phoenix, she nearly drops it until Reed Richards catches it, much like Rachel collapses with the crystal but no one is there with her to catch it. I don't think the crystal appears anywhere between UXM 199 and FF 286 so the Phoenix must have restored it then like you said.

Are you referring to this scene? If you are, this scene is canon to the 616 universe and takes place in UXM 444 after Jean's second death and shows Rachel taking on the Marvel Girl mantle and costume.

[Phoenixx9]

It's automatically fixed when Jean encounters it in FF 286 because I remember that after her vision of her encounter with the Phoenix, she nearly drops it until Reed Richards catches it, much like Rachel collapses with the crystal but no one is there with her to catch it. I don't think the crystal appears anywhere between UXM 199 and FF 286 so the Phoenix must have restored it then like you said.

Are you referring to this scene? If you are, this scene is canon to the 616 universe and takes place in UXM 444 after Jean's second death and shows Rachel taking on the Marvel Girl mantle and costume.

Yeah, I think the PF fixed the Crystal after Rachel dropped and broke it.
You are right Reed did catch it after Jean dropped it, keeping it intact.

Yes, this is the scene. Sorry, i mixed up, thought it was What-If? story, but it is not. Also mixed up Rachel being in it....Rachel was never in the Crystal.

As I wrote earlier, I think each person sees Jean a little differently. I think this may be how Rachel knew her Mom, since our Jean of E-616 never wore that outfit.

[Daedra]

I'm gonna leave this here:

oloj.jpg

[Phoenixx9]

I'm gonna leave this here:

oloj.jpg

".........................." I never saw this.......

Lol, Daedra, what did you just do, lol? Well, now, I just do not know, lol.

[Daedra]

this is how it was fixed:

oloj01.jpg

oloj02.jpg

[Daedra]

Uncanny x-men 201 to see Rachel fix the crystal
and Uncanny x-men annual 14 (end of future present) to see Jean pick it up

[whitecrown]

Yeah, I think the PF fixed the Crystal after Rachel dropped and broke it.
You are right Reed did catch it after Jean dropped it, keeping it intact.

Yes, this is the scene. Sorry, i mixed up, thought it was What-If? story, but it is not. Also mixed up Rachel being in it....Rachel was never in the Crystal.

As I wrote earlier, I think each person sees Jean a little differently. I think this may be how Rachel knew her Mom, since our Jean of E-616 never wore that outfit.

That's all right, this scene doesn't get brought up a lot and there were a lot of What If? issues back then that featured Jean, especially since she was dead during that time.

That's a good reading on why Rachel saw Jean that way. I always figured that because the conversation was about Rachel taking on the Marvel Girl name and costume, that Jean manifested that way but because the crystal represents her Phoenix incarnation, it was a merging of her Phoenix and Marvel Girl looks.

Uncanny x-men 201 to see Rachel fix the crystal
and Uncanny x-men annual 14 (end of future present) to see Jean pick it up

Thank you! I had a feeling I remembered seeing an image of Jean and Rachel in the crystal together way before Days of Future Present with Rachel saying goodbye, but I couldn't figure out what issue that would have been before FF 286.

[Askani's Flame]

It's in continuity, the Marvel Made Paragon website says so and I'd bet it gets released in the X-Men Legends trade (with the Chris Claremont Special probably being released in there too) and on the Marvel Unlimited app. It doesn't change too much if you think about it, just adds some context as to why Rachel is called Starchilde.

You're right that it ultimately doesn't make any major changes, but just surprising to me in a lot of ways. Good that it provides more context, but God now it makes everything with Kurt even more gross

this is how it was fixed:

oloj01.jpg

oloj02.jpg

Thank you for this. I was like, "Yo Rachel totally fixed the crystal y'all crazy" but you found the images lol.