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  1. #436
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott402 View Post
    Thanks Askani, I knew about the Uncanny issues. I was hoping the transformation and new outfit was on panel somewhere and I just missed it somehow. Always on the ball with the Rachel info thanks again Askani.
    I try. I may not always be right but I try my best to be. And glad when people correct me so I am not passing bad info on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    thank you!!!!
    My pleasure friend!

  2. #437
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  3. #438
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post

    5F4419A8-3F3F-498B-8880-0ADEA862E5AC.jpg

    Kurt and jeans Dna

  4. #439
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    art by Magickmarker

  5. #440
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    A8774BA2-4742-4C2B-A9F6-3C43941E5EDD.jpg

    So Rachel’s mother isn’t the Phoenix force hmm

  6. #441
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post

    So Rachel’s mother isn’t the Phoenix force hmm
    I know, it's quite easy to tell they really meant to poison the well with this one:

    "Can we just say that she is a chaos magic avatar and that her origin is split across the multiverse? She has no beginning, she has no end, she exists to be the improbability of the cosmos. She's neither mutant, inhuman, sorcereress or otherwise. Everything and nothing." (Anonymous)

  7. #442
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    A8774BA2-4742-4C2B-A9F6-3C43941E5EDD.jpg

    So Rachel’s mother isn’t the Phoenix force hmm
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    I know, it's quite easy to tell they really meant to poison the well with this one:

    Aaron is doing what he can to really destroy. Perhaps she's only counting Thor since he's from this reality, because I am SURE that there are countless children of the Phoenix in several other realities. But didn't we also get confirmation in that new 140.5 backstory by Claremont Rachel is also connected to the Phoenix by birth? I mean I can't keep track at this point...

  8. #443
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Aaron is doing what he can to really destroy. Perhaps she's only counting Thor since he's from this reality, because I am SURE that there are countless children of the Phoenix in several other realities. But didn't we also get confirmation in that new 140.5 backstory by Claremont Rachel is also connected to the Phoenix by birth? I mean I can't keep track at this point...
    In the future Rachel is originated, Jean Grey didn’t become the Phoenix Force. She was still Marvel Girl.

  9. #444
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    In the future Rachel is originated, Jean Grey didn’t become the Phoenix Force. She was still Marvel Girl.
    That is not true for a few reasons:
    1) Rachel says very clearly early on in Uncanny X-Men that one of the major differences in her timeline was that when Jean started to go Dark Phoenix, her father reached out and embraced her. Rather then push her away as what happened in 616. This ended up changing the next events and Jean eventually married Scott and had Rachel while still hosting the Phoenix Force.
    2) Per the newly released Uncanny X-Men 140.5 the Claremont penned for the "Marvel Made Paragon Collection: Chris Claremont" Jean Grey appears before Kurt as Phoenix and claims Rachel as their daughter and helps her overcome this new tech that threatens all mutants.

    So again, Rachel is the child of the Phoenix.

  10. #445
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    Finally read the Avengers from last week. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Phoenix is Rachel and oh man do they love to just not even acknowledge that she has any part of it. If that's what they are going to do with it then let it be gone from the X books for all time. To be tampered with and used so out of character for so long now is just depressing. The Phoenix story is what got me interested in comics and now to see that so thoughtlessly used is just disheartening.

  11. #446
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    That is not true for a few reasons:
    1) Rachel says very clearly early on in Uncanny X-Men that one of the major differences in her timeline was that when Jean started to go Dark Phoenix, her father reached out and embraced her. Rather then push her away as what happened in 616. This ended up changing the next events and Jean eventually married Scott and had Rachel while still hosting the Phoenix Force.
    2) Per the newly released Uncanny X-Men 140.5 the Claremont penned for the "Marvel Made Paragon Collection: Chris Claremont" Jean Grey appears before Kurt as Phoenix and claims Rachel as their daughter and helps her overcome this new tech that threatens all mutants.

    So again, Rachel is the child of the Phoenix.
    Yes, this was also my recollection of the Jean Grey of E-811. That Jean was Phoenix as opposed to being replaced by it.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  12. #447
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    That is not true for a few reasons:
    1) Rachel says very clearly early on in Uncanny X-Men that one of the major differences in her timeline was that when Jean started to go Dark Phoenix, her father reached out and embraced her. Rather then push her away as what happened in 616. This ended up changing the next events and Jean eventually married Scott and had Rachel while still hosting the Phoenix Force.
    2) Per the newly released Uncanny X-Men 140.5 the Claremont penned for the "Marvel Made Paragon Collection: Chris Claremont" Jean Grey appears before Kurt as Phoenix and claims Rachel as their daughter and helps her overcome this new tech that threatens all mutants.

    So again, Rachel is the child of the Phoenix.
    Retcons and inconsistencies… It isn’t what it said in Excalibur v1 #52…

  13. #448
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    That is not true for a few reasons:
    1) Rachel says very clearly early on in Uncanny X-Men that one of the major differences in her timeline was that when Jean started to go Dark Phoenix, her father reached out and embraced her. Rather then push her away as what happened in 616. This ended up changing the next events and Jean eventually married Scott and had Rachel while still hosting the Phoenix Force.
    2) Per the newly released Uncanny X-Men 140.5 the Claremont penned for the "Marvel Made Paragon Collection: Chris Claremont" Jean Grey appears before Kurt as Phoenix and claims Rachel as their daughter and helps her overcome this new tech that threatens all mutants.

    So again, Rachel is the child of the Phoenix.
    yes, thank you.


    "Can we just say that she is a chaos magic avatar and that her origin is split across the multiverse? She has no beginning, she has no end, she exists to be the improbability of the cosmos. She's neither mutant, inhuman, sorcereress or otherwise. Everything and nothing." (Anonymous)

  14. #449
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Retcons and inconsistencies… It isn’t what it said in Excalibur v1 #52…
    Excalibur #52 is a Davis retcon of what had previously been stated on page by Claremont, to which Claremont is again reinstating his origins for Rachel.
    I know, it's awful the amount of changes different writers do to characters which make readers and fans confused.

  15. #450
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    If anyone has any HQ scans of 140.5 that show those panels affirming Jean as Phoenix as Rachel's mother, I'd love to see them. Not all of us got the Claremont Paragon Collection.

    As for what Phoenix told Thor... maybe it was only that incarnation of Phoenix that had one child (Thor) and another incarnation had Rachel.

    Who knows, the Avengers sucks and outside of a few arcs, it usuallly always has.

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