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  1. #616
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    I guess it really just boils down to personal preference. But I personally don't think there's really anything all that farfetched about how Hickman writes the Summers. Scott WOULD be a good father to his kids because he knows what it's like to grow up without one as well as being robbed of the chance to raise Cable. Now he has a second chance to make that right you better be believe hes gonna try to be the best dad ever making dad jokes and taking his family on vacations and missions. The sad part about it is that despite having two kids floating around for decades writers very rarely have Cyclops be a father.
    I think my problem is that there is a time skip and we went from the dire circumstances with Rosenberg to this Stepford Wives version of characters with nothing guiding readers to these characterizations. Yes, I 100% agree that Scott wants to be this dad-joke -cracking father and have a good relationship with Nate and Rachel. I mean he did already raise Nate, so this is a continuation of that in some sense and he wasn't robbed (thanks Rachel). But for me, it feels like something is missing and forced. Like the are living in a non-reality simulation. Because Scott has a very different relationship to Rachel (who is an adult) and Nate but speak to them in this overly familiar tone that reads patronizing to some. Maybe it's his over-eagerness but I don't like his tone sometimes when it's him and Rachel and Nate.

    As for Kid Cable's personality I loved it. Was it a complete 180 from how he was introduced and Extermination? Absolutely. That characterization was pretty much just OG cable but in a young person's body. As someone who always found the geriatric Cable boring it was refreshing to get a version that was actually entertaining and it gave us some great Cyclops/Jean/Cable interactions. His personal journey of self worth and doubt over constantly comparing himself to the OG Cable (who he killed) was actually a really touching story.
    Again reader bias sure, but also hokey in some ways. I can see what they are trying to do with Nate with this personality (and I still think he's a mindwiped Stryfe and not Cable hence why there isn't a timeline issue) by giving him more of a stable teenage year, but he still carries a lot of baggage and grit with him that we're not seeing. Just a Gen-Z Chad. I would have liked to see more of the Cable we got in Extermination and X-Force than what we currently have. There is a large dissonance between the two that feels out of character and I think that's kind of what Duggan has been doing in Cable but it makes less and less sense under Hickman.

    I will admit Hickman dropped the ball with Rachel her characterization was weak and she barely had any presence. Which is a shame because I feel like there could have been a really good story in there that explained her behavior I mean after six months prior to all of this she had been kidnapped and brainwashed by Ahab into becoming a Hound again that would have been a good way to explain why she was acting the way she was.
    Rachel has gotten literally no characterization under Hickman other than angsty and moody...oh and Scott reminding her how to use her powers because god forbid a woman know how to use her powers right. Otherwise she's been kept apart in all fronts from Jean under Hickman and falls to the older moody daughter trope we see played out in other medias. While Rachel can be moody (I mean look at what she's gone through) that by-in-large is not how she is especially in relation to Scott. We don't have a keen sense of her relationship to Jean other than "family" and "cordial" given the rollercoaster of the way writers have written them, but it seems like luke-warm sounds about right. You're right that having something explain why she acts this way with the family or Jean (resentment for her abandoning her to Ahab and Stryfe?) given how dramatic (and poorly executed) her last story was during Extermination and X-Force, but we didn't. And we won't. And it's a problem for readers across the board with trying to understand the motivations of characters who aren't even shown to acknowledge what recently had happened to them.

    Same goes for Jean as compassionate of a person as she is why wouldn't she want to try to be a mother to her two time-displaced / Universe displaced kids. That's right up her alley as a character.
    Jean IS COMPASSIONATE, but not always when it comes to Rachel. Facts. Also it makes sense for Jean not to want to be a mother to Rachel but be motherly given their proximity in age and their history but we don't see that anywhere currently other than one panel in Cable. But it feels like THAT is her only role: be a mom and be a support to Scott and Nathan. We didn't wait over a decade for her to come back and be only Mom-Jean. Where is the X-Men Red Jean that was fabulous? She was the Jean we wanted and needed. It's a missed opportunity under Hickman and I am grateful that Gerry will be writing her now. In one issue for Hickman she's barely able to do anything other than clean dishes and dote on Scott or Nathan, then she's the HBIC, then she's timid. All by the same writer. And having Jean fit the "mom" trope only works for Nathan as she's already had a large hand in raising him. It doesn't work with Rachel for a number of reasons (search this thread and the Jean thread) and they should have a different dynamic but currently there is no dynamic. It's like they both ignore the other person and Scott and Nate play along with it.

  2. #617
    Spectacular Member askani_son's Avatar
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    Hi! I read this Excalibur spoiler in a web about Psylocke:
    " At the balcony, Betsy is by herself lost in her thoughts when Rachel asks her to a dance. Rachel apologizes for not realizing Malice was possessing her, and Betsy asks her to visit the lighthouse more often."

    Maybe... we can see Rachel in Excalibur? OMG.. please!

  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by askani_son View Post
    Hi! I read this Excalibur spoiler in a web about Psylocke:
    " At the balcony, Betsy is by herself lost in her thoughts when Rachel asks her to a dance. Rachel apologizes for not realizing Malice was possessing her, and Betsy asks her to visit the lighthouse more often."

    Maybe... we can see Rachel in Excalibur? OMG.. please!
    They’ve been hinting at Betsy and Rachel for awhile now.

  4. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by askani_son View Post
    Hi! I read this Excalibur spoiler in a web about Psylocke:
    " At the balcony, Betsy is by herself lost in her thoughts when Rachel asks her to a dance. Rachel apologizes for not realizing Malice was possessing her, and Betsy asks her to visit the lighthouse more often."

    Maybe... we can see Rachel in Excalibur? OMG.. please!
    It was an extremely cute moment. Rachel’s Gala costume looks fantastic too. I know Excalibur hasn’t been the best written book of the bunch but I do give Howard credit for writing a very good Rachel.

    4B17B56E-8802-443E-BDAD-BFC34754EAEE.jpg
    Emma Frost, Rogue, Felicia Hardy, Helena Bertinelli, Allison Blaire, Barbara Gordon, Monica Rambeau, Carol Danvers, Illyana Rasputin, Ororo Munroe, Harleen Quinzel, Lorna Dane, Irene Adler, Kate Kane, Rachel Grey Summers, Jean Grey, Diana Prince, Barbara Ann Minerva, Donna Troy, Jennifer Walters, Gwen Stacy, Wanda Maximoff = PERFECTION!

  5. #620
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    They’ve been hinting at Betsy and Rachel for awhile now.
    I'm here for this ship. Ever since they shared the ultimate intimacy protecting Chicago from the Shi'ar blast I wondered about them.

  6. #621
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
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    First she was shattered battling Isca... now she's impaled on Rachel's boob spikes... poor Betsy.

  7. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Because Scott has a very different relationship to Rachel (who is an adult) and Nate but speak to them in this overly familiar tone that reads patronizing to some. Maybe it's his over-eagerness but I don't like his tone sometimes when it's him and Rachel and Nate.
    That is Scott's character. He didn't have a family as a child and so he always reaches out to whoever he can. Rachel being his daughter, no matter the age gap, is something he accepted from day one. When Rachel revealed herself and Jean had a panic attack, Scott was just upset because she didn't tell him sooner and he was the one trying to convince Jean that her being their daughter would be great. I could see Rachel being a bit irritated at how Scott reacts but ultimately being happy because it just shows he cares.

  8. #623
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Betsy's blouse has an armour overplate.

    While I hate the changes Picchelli made to Emma's diamond fringe dress in XM 21, I like that Marcus To minimised Rachel's spike details, here.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  9. #624
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Yeah, I agree - personally I hate her gala look but I have to admit it's very on-brand for Rachel. I don't know where this idea that she wears classy clothing comes from, she was in jazzercise gear most of the time before she became Phoenix, she had a skintight spiked bodysuit for most of her Excalibur days before wearing the Dark Phoenix costume and she always had that weird buzzcut/mullet hybrid which SHOULD have looked awful except for the fact that Alan Davis is an art god and could make literally anything look amazing. Her Marvel Girl costume was probably her most conservative look till recently and that was a skirt and belly shirt; she's been pretty consistent in not giving a shit about whether people think she has class or not
    In agreement with you about Alan Davis. Whatever the look, Davis made Rachel's outfits rather eye-catching (IMHO):






  10. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    That is Scott's character. He didn't have a family as a child and so he always reaches out to whoever he can. Rachel being his daughter, no matter the age gap, is something he accepted from day one. When Rachel revealed herself and Jean had a panic attack, Scott was just upset because she didn't tell him sooner and he was the one trying to convince Jean that her being their daughter would be great. I could see Rachel being a bit irritated at how Scott reacts but ultimately being happy because it just shows he cares.
    See what you're describing is how I have enjoyed reading his relationship with Rachel over the years. But I feel their interactions in X-Men have felt more condescending and patronizing than supportive under Hickman. I think it's just the way he writes family dynamics and he sucks at it.

  11. #626
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I think bc of the age difference, Scott has treated Rachel more like a younger peer in the past. Under Hickman, he interacts with her more like a child

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think bc of the age difference, Scott has treated Rachel more like a younger peer in the past. Under Hickman, he interacts with her more like a child
    Which is exactly my problem I think. She's never been a child to him as they have been teammates prior to her outing herself as his alt. future daughter. In which he then shifted gears to be both a friend and a parent of sorts. But he never treated her like a child, which is why I don't like Hickman writing the Summers as a family because he doesn't understand how them.

  13. #628
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    He treated her like a daughter when Revenant appeared before him in Utopia.





    Besides, it’s not like Rachel still has memories of being Mother Askani.

  14. #629
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    He treated her like a daughter when Revenant appeared before him in Utopia.





    Besides, it’s not like Rachel still has memories of being Mother Askani.
    Yeah the interaction between them after Age of X was sweet. I think with Hickman, Rachel and 616 Scott are in that stage when adult children and parent try to poke fun at the traditional parenting paradigm. It no longer hurts for Rachel to be around versions of her parents, and for Scott, it isn't new to appreciate a grown up version of a child you didn't get the chance to see grow (which can be painful too). I see their interactions as normal.

  15. #630
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    I wonder with the New X-Men lineup (Which I like) I wonder if Jean will be more of a mother to Laura then to Rachel. Just feels like something that would happen.

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