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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott402 View Post
    Was anyone else annoyed at the last issue of Avengers. They kept repeating that no one has tamed the Phoenix. It's just so annoying.
    I'm not reading that garbage but it's Aaron so he is notorious for downplaying and ignoring Rachel's history with the Phoenix. This is also why it's problematic to steal/take a concept or storyline with a rich and vast history from one line to another with no reference to that history except to cherrypick for what they want to use to their forced view.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I'm not reading that garbage but it's Aaron so he is notorious for downplaying and ignoring Rachel's history with the Phoenix. This is also why it's problematic to steal/take a concept or storyline with a rich and vast history from one line to another with no reference to that history except to cherrypick for what they want to use to their forced view.
    Downplaying and ignoring is putting it lightly. It was just so bad. I think you are right though with ignoring it. It's just such a shame. The Phoenix saga is what got me interested in comics

  3. #93
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    Jean herself said Rachel was a teenager

    4B2B3E99-D2AF-4B86-8875-88B73D07C690.jpg

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I'm not reading that garbage but it's Aaron so he is notorious for downplaying and ignoring Rachel's history with the Phoenix. This is also why it's problematic to steal/take a concept or storyline with a rich and vast history from one line to another with no reference to that history except to cherrypick for what they want to use to their forced view.
    I just treat Avengers-trash that doesn't affect the X-Men books as being pseudo-canon. Like yes, it happened, but no, I don't take it into consideration when reading contradictions in the X-Men books.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerridwen View Post
    Jean herself said Rachel was a teenager

    4B2B3E99-D2AF-4B86-8875-88B73D07C690.jpg
    Math Problem:

    * Kitty Pryde is 13 years old in 1981
    * Franklin Richards is < 5 years old in 1981
    * Rachel Summers is half the age of Kitty Pryde in 2013
    * Franklin Richards is five years older than Rachel Summers
    * How old is Rachel Summers?


    EDIT:

    I think I have a way out of this conundrum: Days of Future Past set the future as being in 2013, which was 32 years ahead at the time. Now, with the mathematical impossibility above, it cannot be 32 years ahead. It has to be 21/22 years ahead. Of course, this means we have to ignore narration and Kate Rasputin's statement about 30 years, put it down to an exaggeration. But that's all right, because it got retconned to around 20 years anyway since Excalibur #66 came out in 1993 and maintained the future as being 2013 instead of moving it up to 2025 to maintain the 32 years. So, yeah, Rachel is about 20 years old when she returns to the past. Thus solving the issue that started the spiral about her memories.
    Last edited by Drexelhand; 01-21-2021 at 09:57 PM.

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerridwen View Post
    Jean herself said Rachel was a teenager
    Rachel could have been a late teen when she arrived in 616 but she didn't remain portrayed that way very long. Her early appearances do make her a peer of the New Mutants.


    But then old enough to sneak into clubs without being "underage looking" but still being called "girl" and "child".

    And then by the time she returned in EXCALIBUR she was full-blown adult bombshell, which could have been an artistic choice.


    And then when she finally confronted Jean, they had the appearance of being the same age...but then that portrayal was backed off from when Rachel/Jean warmed up.
    And the de-aging continued when she transitioned to Rachel Grey/Marvel girl in her mom's honor.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Rachel was always portrayed to be close in age to Kitty, partially why they were tight. Kitty was 14/15 when Ray arrived, and Ray was a little younger than Rogue who was 18. Intrinsically trying to decipher anyone's age in Marvel is insanity as the sliding age scale grows more and more each year. Plus with the resurrection protocols anyone who has been resurrected comes out at like 25/26. It's not a hill I'm going to die on but if Rachel was a teenager still in Days of Future Present, per her and Jean's words, then she was likely 20 by the end of Excalibur. So there's no way she was 20 when she arrived from 811. I still say Rachel is 24 as she's older than the New Mutants but not older than Rogue or Alison or Piotr.

    Also we can't necessarily judge her age based on the artwork as different artists choose to draw characters differently. For instance, look at how Pixie went from being a 13/14 girl who was small in size and everything in artwork to being a slutty bombshell overnight for almost a decade. She was still 15 but the new artist, granted it was Greg Land, adulted her up without aging her persay.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Rachel was always portrayed to be close in age to Kitty, partially why they were tight. Kitty was 14/15 when Ray arrived, and Ray was a little younger than Rogue who was 18. Intrinsically trying to decipher anyone's age in Marvel is insanity as the sliding age scale grows more and more each year. Plus with the resurrection protocols anyone who has been resurrected comes out at like 25/26. It's not a hill I'm going to die on but if Rachel was a teenager still in Days of Future Present, per her and Jean's words, then she was likely 20 by the end of Excalibur. So there's no way she was 20 when she arrived from 811. I still say Rachel is 24 as she's older than the New Mutants but not older than Rogue or Alison or Piotr.

    Also we can't necessarily judge her age based on the artwork as different artists choose to draw characters differently. For instance, look at how Pixie went from being a 13/14 girl who was small in size and everything in artwork to being a slutty bombshell overnight for almost a decade. She was still 15 but the new artist, granted it was Greg Land, adulted her up without aging her persay.
    Yes I agree.

    Personally , l like Rachel at 24, but I am fine with Rachel being anywhere between 24 and 27.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Rachel was always portrayed to be close in age to Kitty, partially why they were tight. Kitty was 14/15 when Ray arrived, and Ray was a little younger than Rogue who was 18. Intrinsically trying to decipher anyone's age in Marvel is insanity as the sliding age scale grows more and more each year. Plus with the resurrection protocols anyone who has been resurrected comes out at like 25/26. It's not a hill I'm going to die on but if Rachel was a teenager still in Days of Future Present, per her and Jean's words, then she was likely 20 by the end of Excalibur. So there's no way she was 20 when she arrived from 811. I still say Rachel is 24 as she's older than the New Mutants but not older than Rogue or Alison or Piotr.

    Also we can't necessarily judge her age based on the artwork as different artists choose to draw characters differently. For instance, look at how Pixie went from being a 13/14 girl who was small in size and everything in artwork to being a slutty bombshell overnight for almost a decade. She was still 15 but the new artist, granted it was Greg Land, adulted her up without aging her persay.
    Allow me to clarify and perhaps correct myself, the gap between 811 and present day as of Excalibur 66 got retconned to 20 years from 32. However, by the sliding timeline, that would put Rachel's arrival to Earth about about 1-2 years before Excalibur 66 meaning she would be 18/19 when she came, dependent on Franklin's age at the divergence point. Excalibur 66 would not have occurred too far after Days of Future Present as per 5 years = 1 year rule.

  10. #100
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Line it is drawn

  11. #101
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Line it is drawn
    I like the looks!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I like the looks!
    Although I liked the run she had as Marvel Girl in Uncanny for the most part. The de-aging and making her a bratty teenager wearing that costume still annoys me. I never did like it. Just felt a little..... I don't know forced. Still always nice to see her and Jean together with smiles

  13. #103
    Incredible Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Line it is drawn
    This is really cute... Added to my collection. Thank you for sharing

  14. #104
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    Hopefully Leah Williams will be able to explicitly write Rachel Summers as bisexual with Kate kinda confirmed as well. I know that Leah has said she writes her as a lesbian, but as much as I like Rachel and Kate, I love the tragic romance of Rachel Summers and Franklin Richards and it'd feel a bit like Days of Future Present were being invalidated. Regardless, I'm glad that Rachel is under the care of a good writer.

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    Hopefully Leah Williams will be able to explicitly write Rachel Summers as bisexual with Kate kinda confirmed as well. I know that Leah has said she writes her as a lesbian, but as much as I like Rachel and Kate, I love the tragic romance of Rachel Summers and Franklin Richards and it'd feel a bit like Days of Future Present were being invalidated. Regardless, I'm glad that Rachel is under the care of a good writer.
    I'm just happy the way she's being written and showing to shine under Leah. I REALLY don't like a Kate and Rachel pairing as I think Kitty/Kate has been an awful friend to Ray. She's a mess and I don't think Rachel needs her drama anymore.

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