Page 37 of 43 FirstFirst ... 27333435363738394041 ... LastLast
Results 541 to 555 of 636
  1. #541

  2. #542
    Being mysterious... From The Shadows's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The NYC rooftops
    Posts
    4,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    Well, there was this slightly-curious reaction to Rachel's appearance at her unwake. "Small text in a big balloon" usually means something like 'stunned':
    Nice art but I do think Kitty is way too young looking. A Rachel and Kitty reconnect isn't a problem with me but I think they work better with her Excalibur era personality which seems more on display here. Isay more... not quite.

    The (old) Hank McCoy thread. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

    Interested in knowing more about Balder? https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

  3. #543

  4. #544
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Krakoan society might be isolationist and has been labelled as cult-like. I wonder if the Askani fits that label even more. The means to their goals were morally dubious, but its also unsettling to think of Rachel as a cult leader. Do you see Rachel as an 'at any cost' anti-hero?

  5. #545
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminal View Post
    Krakoan society might be isolationist and has been labelled as cult-like. I wonder if the Askani fits that label even more. The means to their goals were morally dubious, but its also unsettling to think of Rachel as a cult leader. Do you see Rachel as an 'at any cost' anti-hero?
    Hmmm, it depends on who is saying it. For many of readers, and most of the MU, Krakoa seems cult-like in many ways. So from their perspective yes, whereas mutants might not. In regards to the Askani, I would say that Clan Akkaba and Apocalypse's forces would label them as a cult in order to sway the public viewpoint of them. But I would label them a resistance movement than cult. Only towards the end of her life and after death did they really start revering her as a diety of sorts. I don't know that I would label her as an anti-hero in that life given what was at stake and her goals, but someone opposed to her might view it entirely different.

  6. #546
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Hmmm, it depends on who is saying it. For many of readers, and most of the MU, Krakoa seems cult-like in many ways. So from their perspective yes, whereas mutants might not. In regards to the Askani, I would say that Clan Akkaba and Apocalypse's forces would label them as a cult in order to sway the public viewpoint of them. But I would label them a resistance movement than cult. Only towards the end of her life and after death did they really start revering her as a diety of sorts. I don't know that I would label her as an anti-hero in that life given what was at stake and her goals, but someone opposed to her might view it entirely different.
    Right, I see her as a pragmatist. Its curious to see the evolution of Rachel's knack for survival, from dehumanization and internment to cult leader, meandering through realities and timelines to promote Xavier's dream. Many have died because of Rachel, just curious why she's been forgiven and how she's as pure and shiny a hero as Jean. I guess everyone gets a fresh start in Krakoa.

  7. #547
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminal View Post
    Right, I see her as a pragmatist. Its curious to see the evolution of Rachel's knack for survival, from dehumanization and internment to cult leader, meandering through realities and timelines to promote Xavier's dream. Many have died because of Rachel, just curious why she's been forgiven and how she's as pure and shiny a hero as Jean. I guess everyone gets a fresh start in Krakoa.
    Well you're right that prior to her arriving to 616 she was partially responsible for many deaths due her programming. Given that she has largely been restrained and avoided killing anyone since her time as a hound I don't see why she wouldn't be forgiven especially since no one knows those versions who died. If you're referring to anyone associated with the Clan Askani, well I would see how little anyone would associate the two as for the most part I don't know how important her being Mother Askani in a future alternate timeline has been to anyone outside the Summers Clan and now maybe X-Force. Otherwise people probably shrugged as they don't care lol.

  8. #548
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    8,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminal View Post
    Right, I see her as a pragmatist. Its curious to see the evolution of Rachel's knack for survival, from dehumanization and internment to cult leader, meandering through realities and timelines to promote Xavier's dream. Many have died because of Rachel, just curious why she's been forgiven and how she's as pure and shiny a hero as Jean. I guess everyone gets a fresh start in Krakoa.
    I guess I see it a few ways: 1) the writers wanted the audience to like Rachel so they did not write any backlash to those dastardly deeds; 2) Those deaths were alternate world versions of people in main Marvel earth and so no more was really invested into it than that; 3) not everyone is aware of exactly how many, who were killed, that people were killed, and all the other details, etc.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #549
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Lol. No one blames Rachel for creating Stryfe. I guess its convenient that no one cares about Rachel's past deeds in the 616 reality/current time. Characters like Magneto get trials. Characters with similar histories of being weaponized like Wolverine or Black Widow accept their past deeds and their role. Is it ok that Rachel beats herself up sometimes, has some memorable existential crises, but lives her happily ever after? Is she still seeking redemption on Krakoa?

  10. #550
    Being mysterious... From The Shadows's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The NYC rooftops
    Posts
    4,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    All I know is that if Duggan intends to make Kitty and Rachel an item, it better happen soon, preferably at the gala. X-Factor’s sudden cancellation has me worried about future plans being cut short.
    And here I thought that her and Illyana were going to become the couple with that kiss and all. I'm surprised there wasn't more hoopla. I don't think the Kitty and Rachel friendship should go away completely but since they will become an item it removes the problem... (?) Are you sure they are? I know Kitty hasn't always been very nice. I remember when Excalibur started out she was willing to help Ray by dressing up as her to throw the Warwolves off her scent. Then Allistaire comes along and we are getting an insult towards Ray in her thought bubble. Sigh. I just don't know...
    The (old) Hank McCoy thread. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

    Interested in knowing more about Balder? https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

  11. #551
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Kitty never actually disliked Rachel in those old Excalibur issues, she was just jealous that Ray got all the attention all the time (especially from Alistaire who was completely oblivious that Kitty was crushing on him). That stuff was more about Kitty's insecurities than her relationship with Rachel.

  12. #552
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminal View Post
    Lol. No one blames Rachel for creating Stryfe. I guess its convenient that no one cares about Rachel's past deeds in the 616 reality/current time. Characters like Magneto get trials. Characters with similar histories of being weaponized like Wolverine or Black Widow accept their past deeds and their role. Is it ok that Rachel beats herself up sometimes, has some memorable existential crises, but lives her happily ever after? Is she still seeking redemption on Krakoa?
    But there is a difference when someone is controlled and forced to commit heinous and atrocities against their will, vs someone like Sabretooth who kills for fun and pleasure. I don't think anyone holds her responsible for things out of her control, literally, and nor should she. Additionally I don't think that most people would blame her for Stryfe seeing as she didn't raise him. She could be blamed for his creation, but the outcome had nothing to do with her.

    I don't know that Rachel is seeking redemption in Krakoa. I think she accepts what has happened to her and is trying to move forward. But I don't know that I would say this is her best life. Her best life would be full inclusion in the Summers-Grey family and right now it's been lip service by some of that family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Kitty never actually disliked Rachel in those old Excalibur issues, she was just jealous that Ray got all the attention all the time (especially from Alistaire who was completely oblivious that Kitty was crushing on him). That stuff was more about Kitty's insecurities than her relationship with Rachel.
    This is true, but it fit a pattern of Kitty during that time period. Chalk it up to insecurities or her age at the time, but Ray was a focal point for Kitty's issues. Not cute.

  13. #553
    Incredible Member Micabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    795

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminal View Post
    Lol. No one blames Rachel for creating Stryfe. I guess its convenient that no one cares about Rachel's past deeds in the 616 reality/current time. Characters like Magneto get trials. Characters with similar histories of being weaponized like Wolverine or Black Widow accept their past deeds and their role. Is it ok that Rachel beats herself up sometimes, has some memorable existential crises, but lives her happily ever after? Is she still seeking redemption on Krakoa?
    That not factually correct... Rachel cloned her brother in an attempt to save him from the Techno Virus it was Apocalypse who created the Strife persona.
    Last edited by Micabe; 05-18-2021 at 10:21 AM.

  14. #554
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    That not factually correct... Rachel cloned her brother in an attempt to save him from the Techno Virus it was Apocalypse who created the Strife persona.
    Right, as I said above no one blames her for creating Stryfe as she was just making a failsafe. It was actually a combination of Apocalypse and Madame Sanctity that really made him a monster.

  15. #555
    Houndmarks Subliminal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    But there is a difference when someone is controlled and forced to commit heinous and atrocities against their will, vs someone like Sabretooth who kills for fun and pleasure. I don't think anyone holds her responsible for things out of her control, literally, and nor should she. Additionally I don't think that most people would blame her for Stryfe seeing as she didn't raise him. She could be blamed for his creation, but the outcome had nothing to do with her.

    I don't know that Rachel is seeking redemption in Krakoa. I think she accepts what has happened to her and is trying to move forward. But I don't know that I would say this is her best life. Her best life would be full inclusion in the Summers-Grey family and right now it's been lip service by some of that family.
    While Rachel wasn't the most responsible, her crimes were still serious. IRL, a child soldiers culpability and prosecution varies. Rachel has shown remorse and has sought forgiveness, but I don't think her redemption is complete. Claremont gave her the power for rebirth and retribution and Rachel chose to save herself. Davis granted her salvation, which allowed her to save the multiverse and Earth-811. Lobdell made Rachel the Xavier of a future, and she saved her family with all the failing Xavier had (including making the clone of her 'brother' who is only known as Stryfe). Then, Rachel came back and for the past 20 years she's fought for her family's reputation/memory, taking on Jean's names and becoming a teacher in a school named after her mom. Plus, she went to Shi'ar space to stop her 'uncle' from ruining the Summers name. She's had her revenge, even though previously, she said it was never about revenge. In terms of meaning making and story arc completion, are you saying Rachel's original goal has been reached and she's overcome her internal obstacles? But what now? What is she fighting for or against at the moment? She's been wallpaper for the last 5 years or so, she needs some conflict. lol

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •