Rachel Anne Summers (Grey) 2021

[LordAllMIghty]

I'm such a sucker for Rachel and Jean/Phoenix pics

[Askani's Flame]

While Rachel wasn't the most responsible, her crimes were still serious. IRL, a child soldiers culpability and prosecution varies. Rachel has shown remorse and has sought forgiveness, but I don't think her redemption is complete. Claremont gave her the power for rebirth and retribution and Rachel chose to save herself. Davis granted her salvation, which allowed her to save the multiverse and Earth-811. Lobdell made Rachel the Xavier of a future, and she saved her family with all the failing Xavier had (including making the clone of her 'brother' who is only known as Stryfe). Then, Rachel came back and for the past 20 years she's fought for her family's reputation/memory, taking on Jean's names and becoming a teacher in a school named after her mom. Plus, she went to Shi'ar space to stop her 'uncle' from ruining the Summers name. She's had her revenge, even though previously, she said it was never about revenge. In terms of meaning making and story arc completion, are you saying Rachel's original goal has been reached and she's overcome her internal obstacles? But what now? What is she fighting for or against at the moment? She's been wallpaper for the last 5 years or so, she needs some conflict. lol

I see things differently I guess. For me it's hard to insert real life situations such as child soldiers and use it as a true comparison to what happened to Rachel. There are parallels and comparisons but I can't say that the techniques, experiments, and torture that was done to Rachel makes her as culpable in the crimes as child soldiers. Not that she doesn't have a level of culpability, but we're talking comic world to real world which doesn't make sense always. Yes she has clearly shown remorse and I don't think Rachel will ever truly feel absolved of what was done to her and what she then did to others while not in control of herself. So I stand by my statement that she doesn't seek redemption in Krakoa as I don't know that she thinks she can ever be fully redeemed.

Your assessment is an interesting one. I don't disagree to an extent that part of her first arc in 616 dealt with some strong issues for her and her self was important. A teenager with an extremely violent and tortured past plucked and dropped in an unfamiliar, yet familiar, setting where she is given access to power she only dreamed of. Given the circumstances I think she fared better than others might have, but her inner demons were her saboteur. Trying to escape her past and prevent it from happening kept her at a distance from her peers and teammates, never truly allowing them in. So when she struck at Selene and heard and felt the feelings of the X-Men towards her, she chose to save herself as she didn't think they wanted her. Davis gave her the tools for redemption and salvation as you said. But I don't agree with the spin on her time as Mother Askani. She worked hard to break the hold and system that Apocalypse put in place for the betterment of all kind. Yes, it happened to be that Cable was the child prophesized to truly finish her work and as she realized she could not be the one to teach him, she brought forth Jean and Scott. But again I don't think blaming her for Stryfe is appropriate as she only created the clone. She didn't poison him, train him, or teach him to be the menace he became. As for the others, I think generalizing that she's only down things for her family name is untrue. Are there elements of that embedded in her drive, sure? But she didn't come back the X-Men willingly. She came back after being rescued and then fully rejoined after Jean's death. Jean's death was a spark (and seemingly more under Claremont) that motivated her and reconnecting with those important to her became part of her goal. Her connection to Kitty, Kurt, Scott, and Storm. But the execution of the Grey family hit her hard again, as it was pulling the rug out from under her. Revenge on the Shi'ar was THE motivator for going after Vulcan, not because of the Summers name. She didn't care about that then as she had renounced it. Stopping his madness became part of her cause to save the universe, again. Coming back the school always was home to her so that is why she took up teaching, as well as to continue to prevent what happened in her future from coming to pass.

So here we are. Do I think she's redeemed, no. Does she? hell no. Do others in her world? Yes. But right now her goal is to use her powers and abilities to help mutants strive in this world. I wouldn't mind seeing her have some conflict, but if it's rehashing Ahab or this hound business I'm over it. Because then she is only defined by two elements to her life and writers will continue to use her as wallpaper as she can't be more than a damaged hero who has nothing but her own sad history to contend with.

[Phoenixx9]

I'm such a sucker for Rachel and Jean/Phoenix pics

Yeah, this is a cute Mother and Daughter pic.

[Scavenger]

Yes. But right now her goal is to use her powers and abilities to help mutants strive in this world. I wouldn't mind seeing her have some conflict, but if it's rehashing Ahab or this hound business I'm over it. Because then she is only defined by two elements to her life and writers will continue to use her as wallpaper as she can't be more than a damaged hero who has nothing but her own sad history to contend with.

Thus, she becomes the Red Knight of the Hellfire Club!

[Subliminal]

...But I don't agree with the spin on her time as Mother Askani. She worked hard to break the hold and system that Apocalypse put in place for the betterment of all kind. Yes, it happened to be that Cable was the child prophesized to truly finish her work and as she realized she could not be the one to teach him, she brought forth Jean and Scott. But again I don't think blaming her for Stryfe is appropriate as she only created the clone. She didn't poison him, train him, or teach him to be the menace he became. As for the others, I think generalizing that she's only down things for her family name is untrue. Are there elements of that embedded in her drive, sure? But she didn't come back the X-Men willingly. She came back after being rescued and then fully rejoined after Jean's death. Jean's death was a spark (and seemingly more under Claremont) that motivated her and reconnecting with those important to her became part of her goal. Her connection to Kitty, Kurt, Scott, and Storm. But the execution of the Grey family hit her hard again, as it was pulling the rug out from under her. Revenge on the Shi'ar was THE motivator for going after Vulcan, not because of the Summers name. She didn't care about that then as she had renounced it. Stopping his madness became part of her cause to save the universe, again. Coming back the school always was home to her so that is why she took up teaching, as well as to continue to prevent what happened in her future from coming to pass.

For me, the disconnect in Rachel's narrative is the shift from a main POV protagonist when she was introduced, to being ancillary to more widely known characters: Rachel as the spiritual advisor to Cable, Rachel as the Jean Grey understudy, or Rachel in the ambiguously gay relationship with Kitty Pryde (as fans keep hoping).
 I guess the the shift from being a sole survivor and taking the role as the great saviour shifted in Earth-4935, and she saw the strength in being part of a community. That paradigm shift continued after she returned from the timestream (excluding the periods of isolation to mourn the death of a close family member). I did find it confounding that with her role as the saviour of Earth-811, she then pushes a similar burden on her brother Cable (who then continued the trend with Hope), explaining that a Summers will never have a normal life. I get that it's part of her redemption arc to save another dystopian world and creates the Askani, but she forcibly takes her family members to play a role in her plans. Sure she worked hard and spent a lifetime fighting with a lot of sacrifices, but even after Apocalypse tyranny ends, that world still stays awful. I agree that a current goal for Rachel is to explore relationships with her found family in the 616 and accepting them as familiar people and not the ghosts from her past. Rachel fully accepted Scott after the Greys were assassinated. Although it was Alex's goal to stop Vulcan, Rachel was there to support Alex and to aid Xavier (her biggest role model). The revenge plots seemed out of character for Rachel, but I guess she was at her breaking point, it seemed like a step back. Also, Rachel didn't get an opportunity to build a relationship with 616 Jean until very recently. All the Jean worship seemed cringey because Rachel was building a relationship on a memory, and she was a small child when Jean died. I guess the last few decades were all part of her grieving, atonement and re-integration into a community.

My initial question regarded ethical causation in storytelling. Rachel's fatal flaw is her guilt over her role in the genocide of mutants in her timeline, and that's why writers keep addressing that character trait (and some handle poorly, as if a pep talk can fix that). I'm still waiting for the moral karma of Rachel's origins to play out in a meaningful entertaining way. Sure she died multiple times saving the universe like every other X-Man, but I still want her to do something big to balance the scales and be redeemed.

[K7P5V]

And here I thought that her and Illyana were going to become the couple with that kiss and all. I'm surprised there wasn't more hoopla. I don't think the Kitty and Rachel friendship should go away completely but since they will become an item it removes the problem... (?) Are you sure they are? I know Kitty hasn't always been very nice. I remember when Excalibur started out she was willing to help Ray by dressing up as her to throw the Warwolves off her scent. Then Allistaire comes along and we are getting an insult towards Ray in her thought bubble. Sigh. I just don't know...

I know, right?! But one good turn deserves another, when Rachel dressed as Kitty (LOL):

[K7P5V]

Kitty never actually disliked Rachel in those old Excalibur issues, she was just jealous that Ray got all the attention all the time (especially from Alistaire who was completely oblivious that Kitty was crushing on him). That stuff was more about Kitty's insecurities than her relationship with Rachel.

I know, right?! Definitely one of my favorite moments/interactions/scenes from...

The Cross-Time Caper

[juan678]

art by Magickmarker




https://mobile.twitter.com/Da_Mess/s...52956928647173

[Askani's Flame]

I feel like people are really pushing Rachel and Kate to be a thing starting at the Gala. And I don't think I'm here for it now given how I'm not digging Kate's character at the mo.

[askani_son]

Hi! As I am quite sad about the end of X-Factor, I have thought about drawing Rachel in her different uniforms, like Russell Dauterman has done of several characters and I believe that he will never draw any Rachel cover like that well ... I do it! As a tribute I have drawn the first one with the X-Factor uniform, hopefully we can see Rachel again soon in another comic. What would you like the next drawing to be?

IMG-0483.jpg

http://rachelsummers.blogspot.com/20...l-tribute.html

[Phoenixx9]

Hi! As I am quite sad about the end of X-Factor, I have thought about drawing Rachel in her different uniforms, like Russell Dauterman has done of several characters and I believe that he will never draw any Rachel cover like that well ... I do it! As a tribute I have drawn the first one with the X-Factor uniform, hopefully we can see Rachel again soon in another comic. What would you like the next drawing to be?

IMG-0483.jpg

http://rachelsummers.blogspot.com/20...l-tribute.html

Hi! Nice drawing! Sometimes you have to do things yourself to see them the way you want, lol!

So many Rachel costumes, but I liked the one that had the Yellow Phoenix on chest with the red bottom part. Only saw that one briefly. Sort of reminded me of old Kid Flash costume.

[Askani's Flame]

Hi! As I am quite sad about the end of X-Factor, I have thought about drawing Rachel in her different uniforms, like Russell Dauterman has done of several characters and I believe that he will never draw any Rachel cover like that well ... I do it! As a tribute I have drawn the first one with the X-Factor uniform, hopefully we can see Rachel again soon in another comic. What would you like the next drawing to be?

IMG-0483.jpg

http://rachelsummers.blogspot.com/20...l-tribute.html

This looks amazing, great job Askani_son!! Personally I am a huge fan of her Stajammers lewk so I would advocate that.

[Zelena]

I'm such a sucker for Rachel and Jean/Phoenix pics

I’m thinking otherwise: Rachel was stronger when she didn’t seek approval and recognition from a mother who never carried her. That puts Jean in a uncomfortable situation and Rachel chasing after a ghost.

[Askani's Flame]

I’m thinking otherwise: Rachel was stronger when she didn’t seek approval and recognition from a mother who never carried her. That puts Jean in a uncomfortable situation and Rachel chasing after a ghost.

I agree. Also I would be a sucker for the pictures more of them together if it wasn't always fanfic. Like if they actually interacted as human beings and relatives vs strangers or frenemies in the books.

[Subliminal]

Hi! As I am quite sad about the end of X-Factor, I have thought about drawing Rachel in her different uniforms, like Russell Dauterman has done of several characters and I believe that he will never draw any Rachel cover like that well ... I do it! As a tribute I have drawn the first one with the X-Factor uniform, hopefully we can see Rachel again soon in another comic.

Looks great! I'm a big fan of the Dauterman variants and the Hound costume. Some might say she's wearing her 'murdering' outfit or clothes of oppression, but its Rachel's choice to wear them, and Rachel always had transgressive style and fashion. "Tough hair for a tough girl"

Jean can happily exist without Rachel, but Rachel exists because of Jean. We don't get a lot of complex mother/daughter stories in comics, and this relationship also addresses mental health, identity and subjugation by a cosmic force. It's destined to be unconventional and not idealized.